Topic: Recovery in Simple Terms

[lightswitchedon]

I was thinking....there are many different programs and methods of recovery through which people who have suffered from this terrible illness of mind, body and spirit seem to have lasting success.  That is, they find a purpose and liveliness in life without being drug dependent after once being (or at least feeling) completely and utterly hopeless.  What is it that these programs of recovery all have in common?  How can it be simplified so one basically knows what sort of path must be followed in order to garner the benefits of real recovery?  I would like to see if others agree that it generally boils down to these 4 things:

1. Surrender
2. Support (can come before Surrender)
3. Self-Realization (could be quite a long process)
         -Means include Iboga, Aya, Kriya Yoga, 12 steps, Buddhism, etc with all sorts of combinations in many cases
4. Service
         -Helping others.  That general feeling of altruistic duty where sharing your experience can help others for the good of the whole.

Call it 4S recovery as lame as that might sound.  I use to laugh at stuff on the school gymnasium walls that were like this, for instance, the 3Ds - DISCIPLINE, DETERMINATION, DEDICATION and stuff like that.  Oh well, I like the 4S idea of recovery even though my fellow NA members would probably laugh and say WORKING THE 12 STEPS AND ATTENDING MEETINGS WEEKLY FOR LIFE IS THE ONLY WAY!  I don't think it is the only way and I give up at trying to convince them of that.  It is a waste of my breath and I should know better than to try to convince others to see things my way.  This thinking/behavior has always been part of my problem.

Hope to get some feedback.  It is been quiet 'round here lately.  I hope everyone is doing well.

[Calaquendi]

Great idea for a thread - I hope to see more posts and threads in this sub forum...I like the model you have come up with. You've really condensed all the basics from the other modes of recovery that I have been exposed to. I do not think there is a 'one size fits all' MO for lasting sobriety. I even think 'sobriety' means different things to different people.

Is someone sober if they use entheogens (responsibly) as part of their personal spirituality? I think so. All the 12 step programs do not.

Anything can be abused. And here is the keyword: abuse... though it is difficult to abuse Big medicines it sure as hell can be done.

In my mind, most people know what they can and cannot do 'successfully'. This bolis down to one's drug of choice (DOC) and usually that is something like booze, cocaine, methamphetamine, or opiates. Something with teeth and something that damages us - as you say, in body, mind and spirit.

I agree with very much of the 12 step recovery programs - and if there were a one size fits all method, I think this is as close as it gets. While 12 steps focus on finding one's 'higher power' this corresponds directly to your #3 "self realization"

I believe in a God. I have not had much luck in the way of personifying this deity - or finding a 'personal relationship' as it were. But some of the happiest most satisfied people I know are that way precisely because they have found a way to incorporate this into their lives. I am not saying that anyone's way is the only way, or that an atheist can't be happy or satisfied. I often wonder to myself - would I have to find 'God' to find myself, or would I have to find myself to find 'God'? Paradoxically, the answer is in the question I think, but still it vexes me. It comes down to trust very often...

Someone like me, who has traditionally sabotaged himself at every major turn - will have problems trusting himself, and his own judgement. I have spent many nights praying like a monk, not feeling like I could trust God to help me, or even to help me help myself...but on looking closely at this, could it not be because I do not trust ME enough?

I do not think I created myself. But I do think I have the ability to create my life by the choices I make. It has taken all of my forty years and much pain and suffering for myself and those who care about me for me to come to this simple conclusion.

Some folks may not feel like they 'need' support. They may think it is weak to 'need' anyone or anything. I was of that ilk. Now I believe the reverse is true. We humans are interdependent beings, this is very different from the unhealthy co-dependent mindset that many addictive personality types easily confuse with inter - dependency. Much more than semantics.

Support is absolutely necessary for lasting sobriety, or recovery from one's DOC. I do not have a problem with cannabis, or alcohol. I can take it or leave it. I certainly do enjoy them on occasion. I do not think that this affects my 'sobriety' one bit. However, I have known many people who simply cannot imbibe ANY mood or mind altering substance without serious detriment. I feel for these people - because I do not understand the severity of that condition, I can only relate my own experiences with heroin and heavy opiates, it is hard to imagine not being able to take anything ever. But a certain percentage of those I have known and some folks I have met in 12 step meetings really cannot take ANYTHING without an immediate and drastic personality change, and all the associated circumstances that accompany that...

I posted a thread that got no bites to my utter surprise. Kind of disappointing too. It was about what 'triggers' you. Kind of ties in to this a little bit.

Support is paramount - in this way we can achieve the other things on your list more easily.

Great thread I hope for many responses to this, it is high time we start seeing more of this around here IMO. Thanks!

[crazylife]

Calaquendi said  -    "Someone like me, who has traditionally sabotaged himself at every major turn - will have problems trusting himself, and his own judgement. I have spent many nights praying like a monk, not feeling like I could trust God to help me, or even to help me help myself...but on looking closely at this, could it not be because I do not trust ME enough?"

Wow, can i relate to that. I think the two are inter-twinned. Trusting that we are connected to God/higher group conciousness (Or whatever label people want to give it) and that everything is going to plan. Letting go of feeling like we need control IS control itself?! That we are being guided, and this is our plan? I know when im in a bad place (and disconnected), because im scurrying around trying to find proof that im on the right track, and trying to stop 'bad things' from happening. When im more connected, i just know that whatever happens (Painful or otherwise) it was supposed to, and is part of my lessons here on Earth.
Basically, trying to tell myself to 'Let Go' and stop holding onto physcological safety nets. (I think)

Sorry, maybe this sounds like BS, but that particular passage of yours caught my eye, so i thought id share this.

Great positive thread btw.

[lightswitchedon]

Someone like me, who has traditionally sabotaged himself at every major turn - will have problems trusting himself, and his own judgement. I have spent many nights praying like a monk, not feeling like I could trust God to help me, or even to help me help myself...but on looking closely at this, could it not be because I do not trust ME enough?

I also can really relate to this, however one night while praying desperately I was blessed with a spiritual experience that changed my awareness and perception of life.  I will share this in detail sometime.  The experience has not by any means cured me and this is obvious since I am still on opiates, but it started me on the right path and gave me unwaivering confidence that there is some good in both myself and others.  I was somehow blinded to this before.

Some folks may not feel like they 'need' support. They may think it is weak to 'need' anyone or anything. I was of that ilk. Now I believe the reverse is true. We humans are interdependent beings, this is very different from the unhealthy co-dependent mindset that many addictive personality types easily confuse with inter - dependency. Much more than semantics.

IME, people have been sign posts along the way on this path to wholeness.  It seems that the right person shows up or drops into my life at the exact moment they are needed.  Amazingly, the relationships are almost always mutually beneficial, not them giving and me taking as with codependecy.

My chiro once said to me that God could heal us instantaneously if he so desired, but he would rather us work together toward healing.  Chiro is not religious, just has metaphysical views similar to myself.  I am positive that some outside agency can facilitate healing as I have experienced this myself, but I am not going to call it God.  Also, for me this healing intervened to change my perception so I could be open to the true healing that was to come from listening to and trusting others.  Others such as some of you here at Eboka, a place that I am comfortable calling home.  I just wish that I could meet some of you all.  I suppose that will happen someday, especially if it's meant to.  At least I will be meeting one good spirited healer in less than a month, that's a start.

Support is absolutely necessary for lasting sobriety, or recovery from one's DOC. I do not have a problem with cannabis, or alcohol. I can take it or leave it. I certainly do enjoy them on occasion. I do not think that this affects my 'sobriety' one bit. However, I have known many people who simply cannot imbibe ANY mood or mind altering substance without serious detriment. I feel for these people - because I do not understand the severity of that condition, I can only relate my own experiences with heroin and heavy opiates, it is hard to imagine not being able to take anything ever. But a certain percentage of those I have known and some folks I have met in 12 step meetings really cannot take ANYTHING without an immediate and drastic personality change, and all the associated circumstances that accompany that...

I'm still trying to figure this one out for myself and it might be the most painful thing on my mind.  I'm at a crossroads with NA right now, even though I feel that people in the fellowship partly saved my life.  It's their views on things like suboxone and entheogens that pisses me off.  Friends in there telling me that I am using and that having a few sips of my brothers homemade wine last weekend was a relapse.  N*$%# PLEASE.........

Anyways, back to the point before I go off on a tirade.  I am not so sure where I fit in on the alcohol and MJ topics.  Historically, I have had some unmanageability in my life due to both alcohol and MJ, so maybe I should stay away entirely.  Difference is, I am not going to tell someone else that this is what they need to do.  If they ask for my opinion I may give it, but otherwise that is up to each individual to determine for his/herself.  I feel like I can drink wine in the company of friends and family and that is the only thing I feel comfortable with 100%.  Wine has a spiritual element to it, at least for me.  Beer and liquor has always equaled "Let's get smashed", again, at least for me.

I posted a thread that got no bites to my utter surprise. Kind of disappointing too. It was about what 'triggers' you. Kind of ties in to this a little bit.

That's because who wants to talk about boring things like recovery and staying clean?  I think these topics being more pronounced is something that would make this forum a more wonderful, well-rounded place.

[Calaquendi]

That's because who wants to talk about boring things like recovery and staying clean?  I think these topics being more pronounced is something that would make this forum a more wonderful, well-rounded place.

I agree totally, and I hope that we may be seeing more of this kind of dialogue in the near future. It is an area of the forum that's been pretty well 'overlooked' I think. It is very easy to talk about our 'trips' and our experiences with 'experiences' - but the day to day stuff is really the hard part.

As with ibogaine detoxes/treatments, the trip, or episode proper is only one element of the whole. And anyone who has flooded - especially for recovery from chemical dependency will tell you that the 48 - 72 hours of intense healing is just the tip of the iceberg. I have said this many times, that the true gem in iboga healing lies in the days and weeks following the flood itself. It is in the integration of the learning and the practicing of new things that we get momentum.

I wish I were like some, like my friend Achtwan whose ibogaine experience was my first exposure to this whole thing back in 2005 - he hit it out of the park and never looked back. I have seen and participated in many sessions since then, not including five floods of my own (not all for detoxes) and those who really really are ready to quit using...and truly beyond that, are really ready to embrace what comes after: a completely new life/lifestyle in many regards...these are the ones who 'make it' more often.

But anyone can do this as I am learning. Still and always learning.

Great responses to an important thread, I also hope to see this board more active - people sharing their daily trails where recovery is concerned. Support comes in many forms, it does not have to be 12 step meetings or religious services - it can surely be connecting to like minded and compassionate people just like we try to do here.

Love to you all - Cal

[roy d]

Hi Cal,

The reason NA tells people who are addicted not to take alcohol is because they can not have one drink, they keep going or they take a few drinks and lose their inhibitions and go use.  We've all seen it here on the forum.  Also people will sometimes change their DOC, like anything but being straight.

Oh just so you guys know their stopping sales of the spice type drugs in gas stations and head shops.  Been going on in three counties for about a weeks or so.  They just told them to stop selling it or else.  Or else what??  Or else they will arrest you.  Now, didn't they have to pass some kind of law first.  I never used it myself, but they should not sell to kids.  The hospitals have had people coming in the emergency room from using it.

Best to all,

  Roy