Topic: IBOGA: MAOI vs. SSRI

[RavAv]

i am neither a chemist nor scientist

what is iboga;  MAOI or SSRI

In the article:
Pharmacodynamics and Therapeutic Applications of Iboga and Ibogaine
 By  Robert Goutarel, Honorary Research Director; 
(French National Scientific Research Center)

he says: "It should be noted that Naranjo (1969)41 explained the antifatigue and antidepressant properties of ibogaine by defining it as a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI)."

yet others report that iboga shows SSRI properties

??

[tryl]

SSRI properties for sure, but i have been wondering about the MAOI part.

[mushroom]

Purely anecdotal. But I have eaten all types of cured meats, fermented foods and other non-MAOI diet stuff on ibogaine and never had a problem.

[Eon T McKnight]

While I am not 100% confident, it is VERY VERY doubtful that ibogaine is an MAOI.  The article you refer to is old and is the only one I have seen after extensive searching that states that ibogaine is an MAOI.

While ibogaine does increase serotonin levels, that does not necessarily mean that it is an SSRI.  SSRIs (Selective Serotonin Re-uptake Inhibitors)  increase synapse serotonin levels by inhibiting it's re-uptake at certain (select) sites.  Hence, all drugs which increase levels of serotonin are not SSRIs.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6SYR-3T8P2SF-B&_user=10&_coverDate=08%2F03%2F1998&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1551731284&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=41bdda2e6eff5c23da9e474a6bfe4462&searchtype=a

"ibogaine (or an unidentified metabolite) may release serotonin as well as inhibit its reuptake;"  (my bold)

The reason that one is encouraged to wash out SSRIs before an ibo flood is the prevention of serotonin syndrome, which could be caused by an unsafe level of serotonin being produced by the synergy of the SSRI & ibogaine.  To the best of my knowledge, there has been no report of even massive flood doses (or daily dosing) of ibo producing serotonin syndrome  --  unlike the SSRIs.

~et

[rho]

Tetrahydroharmine is both SSRI and MAOI, so its possible that ibogaine is as well. Also, different MAOI's behave very differently, being either reversible (simply binding to an MAO enzyme with different affinities) or permanent (causing oxidation damage to the enzyme so that it will not function) and/or down regulating the bodies natural enzyme production, and effecting a different subset of the *huge* number of metabolism enzymes the body produces. I've personally never seen a very satisfactory explanation of what factors contribute to serotonin and cheese syndrome and why some MAOI's cause these conditions and others don't.

[moyshekapoyre]

Here's why I think iboga is not a MAOI: when on Iboga, smoking DMT has less effect than normal, which is the opposite of what one would expect if iboga were a MAOI. If you add in some harmalas, though, wow the synergy is pretty intense.

[Calaquendi]

I experienced drawn out DMT effects on iboga - but they were markedly less intense visually. I'm still undecided about iboga's MAOI properties -if they exists at all - if so, they're very very mild....

[halogenix]

iboga may be a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, but it is per definition not an SSRI, because it is not selective: it has plenty of other routes of action.

[fritzerman]

Just read this thread andthe similar theories to what I have researched in terms of pharmaceuticals to help with that depressed, bored, lonely feeling most addicts have. I have selegiline (deprenyl) which is an MOAI. I also have a trivastal which is a dopamine agonist or reuptake inhibitor. All of these meds are used for Parkinson's and sometimes used off label for depression. I have had all of these meds since before I did the ibogaine flood. Honestly, I am wary to try them. I tend to think that the selegiline would more likely be helpful. There are a few posts on different forums of  experiences with the selegiline being used for post acute withdrawal. Tell me if you think any of this makes sense. I am far from being a chemist and purchased these meds only after reading of the experiences of others.