Author Topic: Non-toxic food safe extraction of Iboga alkaloids using limonene  (Read 11819 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Calaquendi

  • cosmic elf
  • Donating Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1600
    • View Profile
Re: Non-toxic food safe extraction of Iboga alkaloids using limonene
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2011, 03:04:10 PM »
I can't believe I missed this thread...man.

Impressive results, Puma. I always welcome any pics to go along with teks  :D

Thanks for posting this.
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline Bancopuma

  • Donating Member
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 161
    • View Profile
Re: Non-toxic food safe extraction of Iboga alkaloids using limonene
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2011, 06:20:53 PM »
Hey dude,

I will likely be performing this tek in the near future on behalf of some close friends and myself, so I'll be sure to take some photos then and upload them.

Iboga Panacea

  • Guest
Re: Non-toxic food safe extraction of Iboga alkaloids using limonene
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2012, 10:46:06 PM »
This seems to be the way to go.  I'm wondering if instead of using Distilled Vinegar in the final step one can use Organic Grain Alcohol to obtain a finer product.  Or is it necessary to use the Distilled Vinegar?  Bancopuma has been absent from forums for well over 4 months so I might have to pm to wake him up.  Regardless a fine work done my friend and I must shoot myself in the foot now for overlooking it for so long. 

I also really want to know how it compares to PTA like described in explicit instructions by Grateful Dad.  This is the "TA" that companies sell which I feel it important to make clear that this is NOT the homemade TA that we can make so simply with vinegar or alcohol.  Somewhere, somehow confusion arose and PTA dosages were being compared to TA dosages.  I find myself in the guilty party of this one for proliferating that false info but from where it came I shall not mention. 

This particular tech is so nice and simple.  Honestly the PTA tech is really hard for me to figure out with my deficient left brain skills.  So for the earth friendly right brainers this one seems more user friendly. 

Off to the races!  Thanks Banco Puma, long overdue!

Offline GratefulDad

  • Dead Head
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1364
  • Uncle Sam wants you to be a Shaman!!
    • View Profile
Re: Non-toxic food safe extraction of Iboga alkaloids using limonene
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2012, 04:42:30 AM »
When you are salting your alkaloids from the limonene, you need to use an acidic solution, like vinegar, or preferably hydrochloric acid, which will leave your alkaloids in the hydrochloride state which seems to be one of the most stable.  You can't use alcohol here, but you could recrystallize with alcohol to help isolate ibogaine HCl from the other alkaloids that form salts with hydrochloric acid. 

I can help you with this extraction, too.  They are all fairly simple extractions once you understand what you are doing.  I could help walk you through this if you need it, since Bancopuma isn't around.  With limonene, you might get a slightly more crude TA, but it may have a more complete alkaloid profile..  The TA in the extraction I posted comes out with 3 alkaloids in a very pure form, where as this method may get more than just those 3, but will be a bit less pure.

Good luck!
GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

Offline Bancopuma

  • Donating Member
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 161
    • View Profile
Re: Non-toxic food safe extraction of Iboga alkaloids using limonene
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2012, 04:52:45 AM »
Hey y'all,

Soz for my lack of presence of late, I'm around in spirit if not in flesh, life has been hectic of late. I have here some information on this tek from Dr Chris Jenks who is something of an expert when it comes to iboga alkaloid extractions, thought it may be of use or interest to some.


I read the thread you linked to and it looks like your tek is very
successful, and from the weights given it must be getting most of the
alkaloid from the bark. When I developed my extraction I was more obsessed
with ensuring that every last bit of alkaloid was removed from the bark
before it was discarded, since on a large scale it might mean fewer
treatments if there were too few pulls. It makes sense to develop a
separate procedure intended for preparing individual doses, since losing
a few percent of the alkaloid might not be worth the work or materials to
prevent.
 
One thing I noticed while experimenting with organic solvent extractions
is that ibogaine decomposes in organic solutions much faster than it does
in water solutions, especially if there is light present. This would be
good to keep in mind. In my own studies, acetic acid doesn't remove
alkaloids from root bark as fast as dilute HCl does, but I don't know if
that matters in extracting alkaloids from solvent. Actually, based on my
recent work with Voacanga, I would expect acetic acid to be most likely to
leave behind voacangine in the limonene extract because that is the least
basic alkaloid. That's not a bad thing since voacangine seems to only
cause stomach aches. However, ibogaline is active (more potent and longer
acting than ibogaine), and ibogamine and tabernanthine probably are too,
and I would expect them to be in your acetic acid extract. Without a
sophisticated laboratory it may be necessary to eat fractions to find out
which ones have useful alkaloids left. Ideally you want all your "good"
activity in the final product, not the extracted root if it were made into
tea or the solvent if it were evaporated.
 
If I were investigating your extraction, I would probably evaporate and
weigh each vinegar extract separately to ensure that the third extracts
contain very little. At the point where the limonene was to be thrown out,
it could be extracted one last time with dilute hydrochloric acid, and
these extracts evapoated to see how much remains and whether it has useful
activity. And about throwing the limonene out - it seems like there should
be some way to reuse it, though it may be necessary to shake it with
sodium bicarbonate the remove any acetic acid. Recycling may not matter on
a small scale though. I would expect that there is an optimum amount of
mixing for the bark extraction, with too little failing to remove the
alkaloids and too much possibly giving an emulsion which prevents all of
the limonene from being separated. The ideal amount of mixing may need to
be described in the procedure to get consistent results.

Offline GratefulDad

  • Dead Head
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1364
  • Uncle Sam wants you to be a Shaman!!
    • View Profile
Re: Non-toxic food safe extraction of Iboga alkaloids using limonene
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2012, 05:07:00 AM »
Awesome stuff!  Thanks Bancopuma!  I'd go with this method, it seems to work pretty well, and is great for small scale extractions.  If anyone needs any help, you have Bancopuma and I to help with any questions.  Just keep us updated on your results, if you can.  :)
GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

Iboga Panacea

  • Guest
Re: Non-toxic food safe extraction of Iboga alkaloids using limonene
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2012, 11:23:52 AM »
I must say that I feel these extraction posts by Grateful Dad and Bancopuma and now by Dr. Jenks are really inspiring for me and a highlight of the forum.  I think I was so obsessed with Kambo that I failed to look into this when it was set out but am very happy to finally find it. 

So GD it looks like I just get hydrochloric acid @ Lowe's.  Is hydrochloric acid the same as Muriatic Acid cause that's what came up when I googled...

hydrochloric acid where to buy...

http://www.lowes.com/pd_206474-34228-CR.MA.P.01_0

Do you know what section it's in, I don't like asking people questions @ stores when it comes to this kind of thing. 

and/or I take it this hydrochloric acid takes it out of the realm of being food safe?  Is this stuff dangerous to get on the skin and such?  I am literally a virgin to this kind of stuff.  Pretend your talking to a pygmy fresh out of the forest, that's pretty much me in a nut shell. 

Iboga Panacea

  • Guest
Re: Non-toxic food safe extraction of Iboga alkaloids using limonene
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2012, 11:39:05 AM »
The old Kiap gets obsessed and can't leave it alone...

Quote
It produced a yellowish shiny, clumpy extract.  Afterward, Methyl Ethyl Ketone was used effectively to change it from a yellow clumpy powder to an off-white powder.  This was done at room temp, then allowed to settle in a freezer, the MEK removed and discarded, the solids at the bottom kept.   2 rinses with MEK were performed.  btw, Alfrendo got about 9% off-white powder out of RB from a good vendor.

This reduced the total by 20% dry weight.  It's mildly stimulating at 50mg.  I think that the impurities removed by the MEK were d-limonene, calcium hydroxide, and some plant matter.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 01:39:24 AM by Caláf »

So it seems this is an important step.  I am so ignorant on this I just have to ask what is meant by 'washing'?  Does this mean I stir it up and then filter it out?  A nice lighter colored powder sure would be desirable.  Also I take it this is after I rinse with either distilled vinegar or hydrochloric acid?

Looks like Lowe's is the place to go...

http://www.lowes.com/pd_206493-34228-CR.MK.M.41_0__?productId=3024048

Offline GratefulDad

  • Dead Head
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1364
  • Uncle Sam wants you to be a Shaman!!
    • View Profile
Re: Non-toxic food safe extraction of Iboga alkaloids using limonene
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2012, 12:01:04 PM »
Muriatic acid is just hydrochloric acid in a water solution.  Without water, hydrochloric acid is a gas.. 

By the way, hydrochloric acid is an organic acid.  It's what's in your stomach that breaks down your food..  Not sure exactly what section of lowes it's in, but it's used for etching concrete, or cleaning it.  It won't eat through your skin right away, but if you get it on you, you should rinse your skin off right away, as it could cause irritation.

The biggest danger comes from breathing while he container is open, as the fumes could ruin your sense of smell.  Hold your breath whenever handling this stuff.  Pour quickly and carefully.  I even have used a needle and syringe to pull some out so I didn't risk spilling it, or smelling it, especially.

And yes, you got the MEK step right.  Mix em together, filter out the solids, let dry completely, then use..  You do this step as the very last one, with the extract you recover from the vinegar or hydrochloric acid, that you used to pull the alkaloids from the limonene. ;)
GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

Iboga Panacea

  • Guest
Re: Non-toxic food safe extraction of Iboga alkaloids using limonene
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2012, 05:35:35 PM »
Oodles of thanks GD,
So interesting about the Muriatic acid being what is in your stomach. 

I hope newcomers tap into these vaults if you ask me this is even a good place to start as nothing like some good old DIY.  It's always better and so empowering.

Well I now feel equipped to do this.  Just waiting for my D-Limonene "Green Terpenes"...

http://www.greenterpene.com/d_Limonene_Orange_Terpenes_Food_Grade_p/001005527.htm

What can I say for you Grateful Dad...
It's like Bam Boom Thanks and more Thanks! 

Iboga Panacea

  • Guest
Limonen Tek : Does it work for floods?
« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2012, 07:45:04 PM »
It seems rather unclear on if this is indeed a true and tested way to flood successfully.  Honestly from what I've read of BancoPuma's flood he has never flooded using this method and I can't quite understand why.  Others also did not seem to reach threshold doses to have visions.  For me visions are the most important aspect of retaining life lessons so that would be integral in my personal opinion to the overall therapeutic value. 

I can be the guinea pig if needed to flood using this method but I'd be really keen to hear if others have gone far enough with it to observe and time test how it works in treatments. 


Offline GratefulDad

  • Dead Head
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1364
  • Uncle Sam wants you to be a Shaman!!
    • View Profile
Re: Non-toxic food safe extraction of Iboga alkaloids using limonene
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2012, 10:26:33 PM »
I am sure you can flood just fine with the extract.  Go ahead and make some, and I'll be the guinea pig, I just haven't had the time lately, but I want to flood again real soon.
GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

Offline Bancopuma

  • Donating Member
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 161
    • View Profile
Re: Non-toxic food safe extraction of Iboga alkaloids using limonene
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2012, 07:02:47 PM »
I've been meaning to flood with some limonene TA extract, I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Iboga isn't cheap and windows of opportunity for such experiences are few and far between these days. To be honest I am very much a fan of the vinegar tek...I have tried and tested it twice now with consistent and reliable results. From experience, I think one long vinegar soak with occasional shaking of five days to a week gets at the very least 90% of all the alkaloids out, maybe more, and this is so simple to perform and completely food safe. I think the desire to further refine and purify one's extract is entirely a personal preference and not at all necessary...I just like to dose on something that takes up much less volume than iboga root bark, while also being much easier on one's system, and the vinegar tek ticks both of these boxes. I also like to take a few grams of the root bark as is along side the vinegar TA to get the whole plant essence in there.

So if you're looking for a simple, au natural, food safe, tried and tested tek I would highly recommend the vinegar tek over this one, which certainly lacks experiential data at this point in time. On the visionary front, all of my subsequent visionary experiences with iboga have been fairly low key in some respects...my initiation experience was BY FAR the most visionary, took me to a whole different plane then experiences since then...has anyone else experienced this? The subsequent experiences were more based on therapy and detox for me personally.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2012, 07:30:34 PM by Bancopuma »

Offline Calaquendi

  • cosmic elf
  • Donating Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1600
    • View Profile
Re: Non-toxic food safe extraction of Iboga alkaloids using limonene
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2012, 12:31:22 PM »
** a little off topic for a second** ::)
Just a quick thought, with KP in mind after reading his post: I hear ya on not liking to ask the sales people questions about 'do you carry this...or what isle can I find this in....etc'  always best to fly under the radar and for myself, I don't look like mr home improvement when I go into a hardware store - so I always kinda feel like I'm being checked out with extra care.

I asked a dude at an H&S hardware store once if they carried hydrochloric acid. He looked at me with such a crazy weird face I literally leaned back from him...I'd say it was somewhere between disdain, suspicion, and even anger - it was damn strange for sure. Not what I expected from a simple question at all...needless to say it made me uncomfortable - my psychic intuition screamed in my head 'this fellow thinks I'm a meth cook or a crank farmer for real'

Lucky for me he was as smart as the nails he was stocking becuase after he proclaimed an emphatic 'NO! WE DO NOT CARRY HYDROCHLORIC ACID' I remembered that I should have called it by the more common and innocuous term that all innocent citizens know it as, Muriatic Acid  - once he realized that I'd be satisfied with substituting the way more innocent muriatic acid for the sinister and nefarious hydrochloric, he dutifully informed me that yes indeed they carried that and I found a gallon in the pool section. It's used to lower the pH in swimming pools. Or to make crank if you're into that, which of course I ain't. It was kind of a funny scene and situation but serious also -  we never want to arouse anyone's suspicions, ever. They don't even have to be founded on anything to mark you as a potential crook - if you don't have paint all over you or gnarly calloused hands, or even if you just look like you got no idea how to use any of the shit they sell (except of course their chemicals) it can stand out.

I went through a summer when I did a whole bunch of different extractions on a whole bunch of different stuff. Some of it was even legal, but all the chems I needed were the same, no matter if my extraction was for DMT or kratom or whatever, and there were times I needed to replenish stuff. Lye in particular. This is one that they watch very very closely and to avoid the 'stare' I would only get one 1lb bottle of the stuff, maybe two but not half a dozen like I wanted to. Since there is a real limited number of places locally that even carry NaOH , I'd have to go back to this mom and pop place. "You know, this other brand really works better to unclog them drains" said the clerk. I told him I liked this brand becuase it worked the best - totally retarded answer since I was buying more and more of the stuff and if it did work so damned good how come I kept needing more. I'd entertained the idea before of retorting a suspicious glare or remark with something like telling them I use it to make my own soap or some other licit and legit purpose - but reeled that idea in quick. It would have been a gas to tell them, 'man there's a giant turd in the commode and I'm finally this close to dissolving the damned thing...it's been a nightmare'

The less you say the better, always . and trying to explain something to someone already convinced you're dubious only confirms their impression.

It really is too bad how we need to walk on eggshells these days to pursue some of our interests, but as long as we keep chill things should be alright. Knowing the correct terms for supplies that have multiple synonyms is a good skill to develop it is a part of hiding in plain sight and keeping other people's nose out of our bidness.

« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 12:36:32 PM by Calaquendi »
" I am you and what I see is me..."