Eboka General => Micro-Dosing => Topic started by: OdysseyIII on June 28, 2018, 12:47:27 PM

Title: Questions about other meds before microdosing
Post by: OdysseyIII on June 28, 2018, 12:47:27 PM
Hey all,

I'm getting ready to start macrodosing RB powder for depression and anxiety. Not addiction or PTSD, so I don't think I need a flood, even if I COULD afford the time off to do it with a provider.

Trying to be as safe as possible, I have a couple of questions before I start:

Do I really need to get an EKG and liver panel for microdosing?  I've never had heart or liver issues, I'm in excellent PHYSICAL health.

I quit Cymbalta (tapered down for a week from 30mg), Adderall (15mg) and ambien (0.125mg) four days ago, is that long enough of a dry-out period?

I'm still taking small amounts of kava and kratom (plain leaf) because otherwise, I wouldn't be able to function. I also cut alcohol back to 2 drinks a night (from 4-5), but won't have any the night(s) before.   Will any of those be a problem?  I've seen conflicting information.

I had phenibut today (only take it once a week), how long does that need to be out of the system?

Will I be able to work while microdosing?

Thanks in advance for any and all responses. 
Title: Re: Questions about other meds before microdosing
Post by: BlueTiger on June 28, 2018, 08:31:10 PM
Welcome OdysseyIII

You are not addicted, but you sure are on a lot of items.  Better to wait two weeks with the amps, so maybe at least another week for you.  Kratom is tough, I flooded for Kratom and it does not really block anything.  The experience was one of the worst I have ever had..nothing like the previous floods for fast acting, like vicodin. 

MDing and a good heart you should be fine. 

If I am you, I would wait one more week and not take any Kratom. 
Kava is also very hard on the liver so I definitely would avoid it as well. 

And you may not be able to work while MDing.  This is the father we are talking about. 
At first it will likely be fine, however, if you do it daily then  the accumulation will inevitably take you beyond a tipping point.  If you ate a gram of RB a day, you'd likely feel something by day 3 or 4 (but tough to tell with varying biochemistry). 

Again, welcome and feel free to message me if you rather anytime.  Peace. 
Title: Re: Questions about other meds before microdosing
Post by: RhythmSpring on June 28, 2018, 10:09:37 PM
You might be addicted if you need kava and kratom to function. It's not a bad thing, it's just a physical dependency.

If you want to get the most insight out of your iboga, you have to stop "functioning," whatever that is (don't die) going into the iboga space. It is possible that whatever you consider as functioning could be the wrong path (making your anxiety worse) for you. Iboga will help you figure that out.
Title: Re: Questions about other meds before microdosing
Post by: RhythmSpring on June 28, 2018, 10:12:32 PM
So yeah, BlueTiger and I are on the same page. Quit Kava and Kratom well before introducing iboga.

And do your research on the half-lives of your other meds.
Title: Re: Questions about other meds before microdosing
Post by: OdysseyIII on June 29, 2018, 12:19:28 AM
Thanks for hearing me out, y'all!

I was planning to start at 100mg for the first dose and see how I respond before increasing.

No, I'm not physically addicted to any one substance. I think I have an addictive mindset, convincing myself I can't sleep without valerian, melatonin and ambien.
And that I can't be social without a few drinks or phenibut or VERY rarely, a little white line.
And that I can't have sex without tongkat ali and sildenifil.
And that I can't release anxiety without a drink or kava.
And that I can't feel anything other than sadness without kratom, even if it's only for a few hours.   

To summarize, I just don't care anymore. About anything; parenting, sex, music, beauty, nature, vacations, food. The only reason I'm still around is because my tween daughter needs her dad. I won't give up. I'm hoping the iboga can help me correct all that. Seems like I've tried everything else, SSRIs, SNRIs, tricyclics, MAOIs, antipsychotics, benzos, CBD, lots of herbs, nootropics, etc (I've been at this a LONG time.)  I even had THREE series of ketamine infusions and got nothing out of them other than a few hours of legalized tripping.

None of my current "tools" have a very long half-life. Am I missing something about metabolization? ("Damn it, Jim! I'm a musician, not a doctor!") The half life of adderall (not XR) is ~10 hours and the last dose I took five days ago was only 7.5mg. I never took more than 30mg a day, which was rare, and always split in two.  This last week, I get sleepy mid-morning and late afternoon without it. Can't use caffeine because it causes more anxiety.
I guess my wording on the kava and kratom was a bit dramatic; I don't NEED them to function, it's just that without them I'm even more of a depressed and/or anxious mess. I've convinced myself that I can't get by without them.  (Sometimes I think I'm more addicted to the morning and afternoon process of toss n washing than I am to the chemicals themselves.) I'm only taking 8-10g of kratom a day (six days a week), MUCH lower than the folks on the r/quittingkratom subreddit. 

Also, I have ZERO spirituality so I'm worried that iboga won't work for me if I don't understand the sacredness of the plant. At least that's what I've read on a lot of iboga sites.

Other than all that, I'm pretty healthy. I go to the gym, get regular blood labs and checkups, I don't eat sugar or grains, drink plenty of water.  I don't have a reason for taking care of my body, mind you (well, maybe vanity), it's just another habit.

Thanks again for listening.

Title: Re: Questions about other meds before microdosing
Post by: RhythmSpring on June 29, 2018, 10:52:46 AM
Thank you for clarifying on the nature of your substance use. I know it isn't easy to be frank about it. I take back my wording of "physically addicted."

I wouldn't worry about having "zero spirituality." In some sense, iboga isn't even spiritual. It can be very practical. It can offer insight that is very direct, matter-of-fact, no frills, etc. And it may not even seem like it's coming from an outside source. Indeed, it is you who will (hopefully) do the realizing, or perhaps the un-learning of patterns that got you into this mess in the first place.

In my not-so-humble internet-stranger's opinion, you do not NEED to get an EKG or liver panel test before you microdose, especially if your physical body is pretty much healthy.

Most of the iboga/ibogaine deaths/complications come from people accidentally or stupidly mixing other substances with iboga. "Whoops, I did a line of cocaine while on iboga!" "Whoops, I couldn't deal with the emotional pain on iboga so I went for my "trusty" opioids!" That'll kill you.

That's one of the reasons why, if you want to go deep with iboga, you need a sitter present to prevent those things from happening and/or give moral support.

Good luck, and have fun!!
Title: Re: Questions about other meds before microdosing
Post by: OdysseyIII on June 29, 2018, 02:49:56 PM
Thanks for the reply.  I TRY not to be TOO stupid with my meds.  Having quit cymbalta, ambien and adderall for the last six days, I think I can say they weren't really doing much for me, merely habits.  I was hoping to take the first micro dose (around 100mg, RB powder) next Monday.  By then I will have been off those for a week and a half (if you read my above posts, those three were very small amounts to begin with)
 I won't have kratom or kava the day OF microdosing, but from a purely safety concern, would it be ok to have a small amount of kratom (like 3g plain leaf)  the morning BEFORE?  (Sundays are difficult without it.) 7-hydroxy-mitragynine half-life is only 2-3 hours.  The online  information is confusing. For example, some sites recommend having a small supply of xanax on hand during a flood dose. Or that kava can help after the initial dose has worn off. This conflicts with others that say you need to be off everything for weeks before and after.   

I have a sitter (kind of). My girlfriend is an LPC and has been doing lots of research on how to be a "guide", even if it is just microdosing. She's incredibly supportive and is both invested and curious about the process. 
Title: Re: Questions about other meds before microdosing
Post by: RhythmSpring on June 30, 2018, 10:49:38 AM
It sounds like you should be fine. I personally am against using xanax during a flood, more for spiritual reasons than safety reasons. 24hrs before should be fine, just don't take something else while iboga is in your system. And remember, once you take iboga it is IN your system for a LONG time. We're talking 4-8 weeks, because it gets converted into noribogaine which stays in your system for about that long.