Author Topic: 43mg/kg dose  (Read 9707 times)

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counterbond

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43mg/kg dose
« on: December 01, 2010, 03:19:34 PM »
ibogaworld says to take 4 grams of TA for my pitbull's second flood, he weighs 59.8 kg, and is seeking relief from his anxiety and panic attacks. That dose sounds like way too much. Can anyone tell me if my math is right?

4g TA @ 65% ibogaine alkaloids
equivalent of 2.6g of pure ibogaine

2600 mg ibogaine / 59.8kg weight = 43.4mg/kg

~counter

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: 43mg/kg dose
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2010, 04:00:07 PM »
I don't think the TA is 65% ibogaine, it's 65% alkaloids, of which probably 60-70% is ibogaine.  The other alkaloids don't have the same effects.  4 grams of IW's TA sounds like it's probably plenty for you.  If you are extremely sensitive, you might not need that much.  You weigh less than I do, I am about 73 Kg, and 5 grams would probably be a decent dose of TA for me..  What you can do is split that 4 grams up over 4 hours to gradually get it in.  If after 3 hours you are having full on visions and stuff, then save the last gram.. 

Since you are not detoxing from opiates, you might be a bit more responsive to the effects.  With TA, the trip builds slower and lasts a little longer..  You can just ramp it up as needed.  I suggest you keep eating it until you are having visions, but you have to go by how you feel.  That's why it can be a good idea to have someone experienced with iboga administer it.  You can do it yourself, but it's a little more difficult without having any experience.  Sometimes it's hard to eat another capsule when the trip is kicking in, but it might be needed for the full experience.  This will be left up to you..
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counterbond

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Re: 43mg/kg dose
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2010, 04:28:04 PM »
thanks for the insight gratefuldad:)

Offline digital_phreedom

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Re: 43mg/kg dose
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2010, 07:08:33 PM »
Also: I love Michelle, but myself, and a few others, think that the doses she's been recommending are a ways on the high side. Glad you came here to check first. 43mg/kg isn't likely to be fatal or anything like that, but holy crap that's a huge dose.
Embrace this moment, remember: We are eternal. All this pain is an illusion.

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: 43mg/kg dose
« Reply #4 on: December 01, 2010, 07:29:47 PM »
They sound okay to me..   :P
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Offline Calaquendi

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Re: 43mg/kg dose
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2010, 12:25:17 PM »
We DEFINITELY need to be careful dosing this medicine...it is good that you asked this. GD is correct about the TA - a 65% TA means that the total combined alkaloids in that extract equal 65% {a mixture of ibogaine and its analogues}. Still, when dosing a TA, find out the (PURPORTED) %  and dose the full spectrum like you would HCL.
 
This confuses a lot of people but really it is simple and prudent to dose this way - because of that 65% only part of it is ibogaine, the remaining alks are also active and do work in much the same way as ibogaine. They tend to spread the experience out and IMO 'soften' it. Since the other alks in the TA profile are also active you want to calculate dose as if it were 65% ibogaine,  then you can get your mg/kg right. This is prudent, and a good way to keep the doses safe. If one tried to fumble around and guess at how much of a TA or PTA is ibogaine they might screw it up and dose too high. 43/mg/kg is NOT recommended. Calculate a dose of 20-25mg/kg based on the 2.6g of pure alks in the extract. If you are not where you want to be after consuming the pre measured dose of 20-25mg/kg, slowly increase until you feel you have done enough. You likely will not need it all and have some left for boosters. Not everyone is looking for a lot of visions - especially for addiction interruption. Some people are disappointed if they do not get a visionary experience. This is strong medicine and at the least it will provide you deep insights even if you don't get whacked over the head with an epiphany.

For your own reasons of dealing with anxiety and panic attacks, I think a mega dose might well prove uncomfortable, you can achieve good and lasting results with a safer, more comfortable dose of 20mg'kg. ALWAYS err on the side of caution with this stuff. I weary of the back and forth discussions here lately concerning what people should and should not take. We have a responsibility first and foremost to SAFETY and this forum is here to share information on an obscure and little understood medicine that is still largely experimental...I would not want anyone out there to go overboard becuase of careless information gleaned from our board.

The VAST majority of people use ibogaine in the 18-25mg/kg range. I will not recommend doses higher than that, especially for a novice - sometimes it is necessary to do a treatment more than once: this, I feel, is more important than going overboard trying to "cram" a first session... for panic issues I would recommend doing a dose in the 20 mg/kg range.

This medicine works simultaneously on many levels. The bio-chemical  action of iboga is unmatched by anything else in the world, the only thing that comes close in this regard is ayahuasca. Ibogaine has very unique properties in regard to alleviating anxieties, refractory depression and stress. Even if visions aren't experienced at normal doses (or on the first excursion), the neuro-chemical changes still take effect, so you should certainly experience relief of your symptoms.
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: 43mg/kg dose
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2010, 12:28:32 PM »
Also: I love Michelle, but myself, and a few others, think that the doses she's been recommending are a ways on the high side. Glad you came here to check first. 43mg/kg isn't likely to be fatal or anything like that, but holy crap that's a huge dose.

It IS a huge dose, and completely unnecessary for most people. Why risk it?  It's foolish to be cavalier loading up a 43mg/kg dose, particularly if this is an initial exposure to eboka.

They sound okay to me..   :P

Dude...I don't think even you would require such a dose, and might even be surprised by just how strong a 43mg/kg protocol would be. That's DOUBLE what most people need and this isn't a typical tryptamine, you know that. People might start to get the wrong idea  - It isn't about how much one can 'do' or how much somebody can 'handle' - it's about what WORKS. There is no need whatsoever to exceed the minimum effective ranges here, in fact - why go past the typical/common active doses that most people are successful with?
Getting into uncharted territory with excessive ibogaine dosing is irresponsible - especially since so many here are new to this material, inexperienced and looking for ideas and sound advice  ...99% of people who use this never have to go past 25mg'kg, in fact that is on the heavy side for most everyone.

« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 01:12:13 PM by calaquendi »
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RavAv

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Re: 43mg/kg dose
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2010, 03:04:00 PM »
calaquendi is very right
visions are not the goal with ibogaine  :-\

if one wants visions
there are many other tryptamines that can SHOW you visions
many trytamines show you a lot about yourself, life, etc
but they do not change anything

the goal with iboga is a RESET

i have watched over 40 people this year
and the visions are not a necessary part of the reset
the goal is to eat enough to get the reset
what most people call flood
on the smallest amount possible
past this point just makes for a longer harder landing

just my opinion  ;)

RavAv

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Re: 43mg/kg dose
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2010, 03:30:15 PM »
If one checks all of the research out there
the same figures come up
10 mg / kilo for non detox
20 mg / kilo for detox

using 99 % ibogaine for a 60 kilo man would be
.6 gm for non detox
1.2 for detox

the known dosage for indra was 4x this
2.4 for non detox
4.8 for detox
(i have found 4 - 5 for non detox;
and 5 -7 for detox as more accurate as sometimes you need to give more)

using 50% TA
the figures would come out to
1.2 for non detox
and 2.4 for detox
(yes - 4 gm is VERY high and not needed)

i have found the term non detox not so applicable
from experience i have found that in most cases the reset is the goal
and thus the amount needed for non detox people
is only slightly lower than the detox figures





Offline GratefulDad

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Re: 43mg/kg dose
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2010, 03:39:45 PM »
I am going by the IW TA I ate.  Unless it is much different now, I guarantee 4 grams would be just fine for me.  I ate a gram of that TA and went to a festival and hung out all day.  So I don't know, if it's gotten much more potent in the last few months, it might be high, but I can only go by my experience.  Also, the visions may or may not be very important, but it's a good indication you have reached a proper dose when they are kicking in full force..  I gave one treatment to a guy kicking poly opioid dependence, and I gave him 5 grams of 40-50% TA, and it worked for detox, but I think he could have gone a bit farther, as does he.  He is not much bigger than I am.  So we may just have insane thresholds, or whatever, but again, I am going by my experience..

On second thought, it has been probably almost a year since that TA was purchased and months since I ate it...  Oh, how the time flies..  But still, it would have to have gotten significantly stronger.  Yeah, and really by all means, just take 2 grams, see how that does for you.  If you ain't there in a couple hours, you can eat more.  It is nice to have it on hand, though.  You have to forgive me because I seriously just need way more, and it's kind of annoying.  People all over talk about doing these normal or small doses and getting all kinds of effects, when I eat twice the normal person easily, on anything there is, and I get a buzz..  So I mean, hopefully you're not an insensitive bastard like I am, but in case you are, I'd get what they recommended, and if you don't need it all, then great, you might want a little booster or something sometime.  It works good as a general tonic in small doses. 



« Last Edit: December 02, 2010, 03:47:43 PM by GratefulDad »
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Offline mushroom

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Re: 43mg/kg dose
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2010, 07:19:07 PM »
I took 35mg/kg of IW 70% TA per the recommendation and it kicked my ass. I had already flooded twice before, but I can say if it was my first time taking that much I would probably never have taken it again.

Offline digital_phreedom

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Re: 43mg/kg dose
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2010, 07:30:18 PM »
1 gram of that IW TA is enough to put me in bed for a good 4 hours, easily. GD, you sir are some kind of robot, whose fuel is psychedelics.
Embrace this moment, remember: We are eternal. All this pain is an illusion.

Offline Sara Glatt

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Re: 43mg/kg dose
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2010, 05:40:04 AM »
ibogaworld says to take 4 grams of TA for my pitbull's second flood, he weighs 59.8 kg, and is seeking relief from his anxiety and panic attacks. That dose sounds like way too much. Can anyone tell me if my math is right?

4g TA @ 65% ibogaine alkaloids
equivalent of 2.6g of pure ibogaine

2600 mg ibogaine / 59.8kg weight = 43.4mg/kg

~counter


 HCL on it's own isn't the same as in a natural combination with the other alkaloids as in a root bark or root bark extract.




Offline Psychenaut

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Re: 43mg/kg dose
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2010, 02:38:40 PM »
So Greatful was this TA from Ibogaworld?  TA like rootbark is highly variable in it's strengths when it's not standardized.   I've had one dose that I've floated right through and another in the same amount that caused my vision to vibrate intensely and set my ass down in my bed to facilitate an inward conversation.  I think a big part of what iboga does has to do with a persons ability to listen without distraction and for me a festival isn't a place I'd find conducive to doing that.. to each their own. 

The same is true with rootbark.. good rootbark can lay you out for the day at 2 tsp./5grams.

Ibogaine can facilitate the reintegration of fragmented personae and heal the underlying emotional/perceptual turmoil within, if we are open to listening with our hearts open.  After this has taken place there is  really no need to revisit the flood in the hopes of finding out what the future holds or to talk with dead people or whatever the hell we are trying to get out of it.  Small doses will take us right back in when it's needed and we are ready.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2010, 02:52:06 PM by Psychenaut »
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Offline GratefulDad

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Re: 43mg/kg dose
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2010, 03:38:42 PM »
Well, all I can say is, speak for yourself..  I can sit in a quiet room on a gram and it doesn't give me the effects it does most people.  I had been taking doses of the TA from IbogaWorld, as I chose, for small boosters.  A few half gram doses were nice, and I felt the effects, but I wanted a bit more, not to mention it makes me feel really good.  So I ate a gram, and had a wonderful day, full of energy, and I think it made me glow.  It seemed to make people want to be around me or something.  Not to mention on a low dose buzz, it's great to dance on.  Let me again state, I have a high threshold for nearly every drug.  I am just that way.

Now, I know a lot about what it can do.  It has freed me from opiate addiction twice.  But I haven't gotten any autobiographical recall, or realized the reason I ever started using.  I can infer it was from not having a father around, or whatever on my own.  Iboga has shown me many things, however, it has not laid it out in visions that made sense to me about my past addictions.  I have only scratched the surface with my three flood doses.  One because I was kicking a 7 year habit, half of that spent on methadone.  The last two I was kicking a small habit due to an injury but because I dosed as recommended by people who all had my safety in mind (as well as no idea of my threshold for psychedelics), I didn't really reach any visions.  I got some minor visions of faces or people floating by, but they were very faint, had no color, almost like apparitions.  They did not move or anything, just floated by, like pictures.  I could see through my eyelids at one point, and when I'd turn my head around, it was just like I was looking around with my eyes open, but they were closed.  Now, that was pretty cool, and I'd do it again just for that, not to mention I like the way it makes me think, except for losing my train of thought easily.

My first detox I had some vivid visions of war and gluttony, but I am seeking to revisit that visionary place without trying to kick opiates or any drugs, so I can talk to spirits or adjust my psyche, or learn whatever more iboga has for me.  I need a healthy dose, on the high side, so I can get what I want out of it.  Now if it tells me I learned all I can and not to use it much, then I will listen, but that isn't what it has done for me yet.  It has been gentle and given me a sense of what is good for me.  It has helped me regain balance in my life, and in low doses it's a nice buzz, general tonic, and can keep me on my path.  I do think a good reset every once in awhile is good, though.  People change and sometimes it might be good to take a good look at everything and re-evaluate one's life.  I do that often with other psychedelics.  I am a psychedelic explorer, and I have tripped countless times on numerous psychedelics.  I think iboga is one of my favorites.  I will use it as I see fit, and see what it has to show me.

I am pretty happy with my life, I have great will power and control over my life now.  It wasn't until I had balance and felt good that I really got the most out of other psychedelics, too.  So, I believe iboga has helped me gain the balance I needed to get the most out of other things, but that doesn't mean I am done with it.  I see all drugs as tools, and learning how to use them properly for each job is the key to getting the most out of them.  For me that means experimentation until I feel I understand the head space as best I can.  Then I will use them as I see fit for my needs.  And if that be for enjoyment of the buzz alone, then that's what I'll do. ;)

Thanks for your input.
GratefulDad

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