Author Topic: RECOMMENDING IBOGA & RESPONSIBILITY  (Read 4072 times)

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Offline JohnnyB.Goode

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RECOMMENDING IBOGA & RESPONSIBILITY
« on: January 24, 2013, 08:11:08 AM »
Greetings fellow Ebokians old and new

My apologies in advance for this thread which will probably push some buttoms,
but I feel responsible to start this thread.

This forum has been such a haven in that it has strived to be a
RESPONSIBLE forum for HEALING

RECOMMENDING
THAT A COMPLETE STRANGER
TAKE IBOGA
IS TOTALLY IRRESPONSIBLE !!!


I am happy that you had such a wonderful experience.
I am happy that you found healing, insight and growth.

But how can you then go and recommend
that a complete and total stranger
(of whom you know nothing including full medical records)
take a known physical dangerous substance.

Did you even know that iboga is potentially medically dangerous ?
Do you know what the medical dangers of iboga are ?
Do you know what the toxicity of iboga is ?
Do know you what LQTS is ?
Have you read any of the medical journal articles on iboga ?
Do you know how many people have died from iboga ?
Have you read any or all of the coroners reports ?
Do you know the person's medical history that you are telling to take iboga ?
How about their psychological history ?

It can be very helpful to share your personal experiences.
"My flood experience was _____________."
"I sat for my friend and this is what I saw _________________".

It also might be different when someone starts a thread having already made the decision to do iboga and is looking for more information, than when someone is looking for advise to take iboga.

I have flooded  5 - 6 times, done 15 - 20 boosters, microdosed for 2 years, "sat" for almost 150 addicts, PTSD, friends and strangers, read hundreds of articles and dozens of coroners reports and have come to one conclusion -

I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT IBOGA OR HOW IT WORKS.

I am asked weekly about "taking iboga" and while I can share how amazing the experience can be and how healing, I generally tend to first discourage anyone from doing it.  While I can tell them what they will most likely experience, I can not promise - every case is different.

I am truly happy that iboga has helped you in whatever way it helped you - but

LIFE IS NOT A JOKE !

PLEASE -
Before you advise a total stranger to take a powerful dangerous plant,
think
and ask yourself -
on what expertise am i giving such advise.

LET US ALL TRY AND KEEP EBOKA A SAFE AND RESPONSIBLE FORUM OF HEALING

Peace and blessings
Johnny B. Goode




 
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 09:28:37 AM by JohnnyB.Goode »
" . . . THE ONLY WAY TO VALIDATE YOUR EXISTANCE IS TO ACCEPT THE REALITY OF YOUR NON-EXISTANCE . . . "

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: RECOMMENDING IBOGA & RESPONSIBILITY
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2013, 05:52:25 AM »
I am in agreement: and have worked diligently to help create the model that this board has become - yet you are absolutely correct about tempering ZEAL with common sense and caution...if you look at older, ancient posts from early on throughout the evolution of Eboka, you will notice a kind of ebb and flow - from periods of halcyon, dreamy, johnny appleseedness, to hell - bent concise and rigid backpedaling about giving dosing advice etc...this is natural growth... we can see it reflected in many key points over the few years we have been operating, and I am personally very proud to be a part of this place or to have any amount of influence here...yet even this - our maturation as a group/community will arrive in stages. Fits and starts, and punctuated (hopefully always) by intelligent, altruistic membership not afraid to 'step on toes' if it means bringing serious issues to light. Yes, many think iboga can 'heal the world'...were it so.

Much of it does come down to the specific thread, posts or questions one comes here to learn or discuss, JBG (as you touched on above in the example of someone looking for info who is 'already going to do this') - we see this all the time, and better to debate particulars and share even the most basic medical consensus/protocols than to have nothing like this available at all... Five short years ago it was a desert, even the internet was a desert for much of this kind of information - this forum was and is intended to be a body of knowledge - a resource that folks can come to as well as a social exchange of ideas, experiences and thoughts...but I have stated time and again and will do so once more now, that Eboka.info is in no way meant to replace medical advice or supersede professional medical attention...

Yet we are truly an operative element, collectively, as vanguard of a new paradigm in alternative healing -  and I will continue to keep reminding people each of THEIR own responsibilities whether posting, reading, or however they choose to participate   
(or not)  here....personal responsibility is paramount and the buck does indeed -- stop right there.

I would absolutely rather direct someone here - if only as a beginning to their search - than to shrug off anyone's interest in something that could well save theirs or a loved one's life. Is not that also a responsibility? Yes, ibogaine CAN BE dangerous, and misinformation equally so -  but what I stand firm on is that it is every one of we human beings' inalienable BIRTHRIGHT to take our own health in to our hands, enough has already been usurped by an industry that does not want healthy people... because healthy people do not buy medicine or require procedures. I will not move on this, ever.

No one advocates carelessness, and yes I do not like to censor and will likely always keep a light handed approach to moderation - but it would be a mistake for anyone to ever confuse my intentions here for weak leadership. Anyone who knows me knows it is not so. I have endured great pains keeping this place alive, more than I ever thought I would have to be subject to. Behind the scenes slanders and retarded accusations by even more retarded and dangerous morons - but it hurts to have to be in that place, to really know that someone could ever really 'go there' with some of the inane, foul accusations I have overcome...and I will not yield, unless I AM responsible. This is a principle.

But this forum is only meant to be a discussion and I pray it never becomes ANYONE'S sole source of information. You can get hooked up with a zillion other links just from this place alone, so make it a bookmark, share with us, but please do not make it something it is not- the be all end all of iboga information.

We are all on the cutting edge here- I have five floods, countless boosts and microdoses as well, I am intimately familiar with addiction and more familiar than many with iboga and ibogaine, yet my 'advice' here is ever accompanied by admonitions and invitations to gather ever more information from as many sources as you can. I am proud of this place, the membership and the sincerity and caring I see daily, but yes let us heed these words and try to keep them in the front of our minds...I have facilitated difficult treatments and have worked with some very talented, caring and intelligent people, and what I have learned is, aside from my own experiences, I have so very much more to learn. We all do.

I hear you and appreciate your position. Mods especially please take notice of this thread - we are hitting a serious growth spurt and can find ourselves suddenly on the wrong side of 'all of this' because someone 'read something here or was given advice'...yadda (fill in the blanks) - the larger we get the more scrutiny we will endure, this is just the way things are. No one is saying to not have convictions or principals where this work is concerned, but responsible advocation of 'experimental' alternative health treatments can be weighty. Thanks for the thread man...I will perhaps appear stubborn in defending the basic premise of these boards by saying AGAIN that the disclaimer is not a decoration and the many times I have repeated myself about personal accountability cannot be understated.

I will not be liable for anyone coming here, reading a few posts, maybe or maybe not communicating, maybe or maybe not being honest IF they communicate - and having learned that some poor desperate person came to harm because they could not discern the potentially conflicting viewpoints they came across here and so made hasty or dangerous, undereducated choices resulting in harm.

This is not harsh, on the contrary it is as giving as it can be, it is only fair to expect adults, even sick ones to take their time and research when this is probably the single most repeated line in every thread on the forum. TAKE YOUR TIME

If we want to continue to be here for one another, we must take care to collectively check ourselves from time to time. This is appropriate. But I will also have and allow balance here, up to and including individual accountability/responsibility for one's own health: ironically this is what lead most of us here to begin with...taking our health back into our hands. This is a DISCUSSION board with many experienced LAYPEOPLE and some facilitators/providers and lurking medical staff...make it a stop on your journey, and come full circle to share with us, but own your own well being and practice discernment in all one's research.

I appreciate the thread JBG. No buttons pushed here, nor am I being obstinate about the mission here-which to me is self evident - a group of like minds sharing what we know...let us all make this coming year the best it can be for each person here and those yet to come.

"Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken" - no more than having a breakthrough entheogen experience makes you a 'shaman' because you survived the damned thing. Face paint and rattles - ritual and ceremony all have their place, and I place these high in my personal 'dossier' - they are important, but let us hear JBG -who has more experience than many of the most experienced of us combined, and emulate that humility - it is an intrinsic part of being smart and being safe. No room for ego....I often have concern over those who identify themselves as healers...I have participated in many healing sessions yet I have not healed anyone nor will I. The best I can do for this community, this medicine and the future of the whole apparatus is to understand that I am only ever a humble and willing servant of the true healing...anyone thinking otherwise is likely to be dangerous dangerous.

Thoughts, opinions, ideas?

Love this place and you people, Cal
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 07:17:46 AM by Calaquendi »
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline JohnnyB.Goode

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Re: RECOMMENDING IBOGA & RESPONSIBILITY
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2013, 07:51:29 AM »
Thank you for such a clear - on the mark - post.

I am in full agreement with everything you added

I refer people to this forum all of the time,
my only concern is misplaced ZEAL
by well meaning but naive individuals
causing damage to any individual or the forum itself

JBG
" . . . THE ONLY WAY TO VALIDATE YOUR EXISTANCE IS TO ACCEPT THE REALITY OF YOUR NON-EXISTANCE . . . "

Offline gloriadeo

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Re: RECOMMENDING IBOGA & RESPONSIBILITY
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2013, 03:16:11 PM »
Basse' and basse'.

i support every wise word

gloria deo
"The art of the medicine consists in amusing the patient while nature cures the disease." Voltaire

Offline Asecondlife

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Re: RECOMMENDING IBOGA & RESPONSIBILITY
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2013, 10:55:39 PM »
I totally agree with everything that was said. Learn/grow/learn more/grow more.

Offline kbud

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Re: RECOMMENDING IBOGA & RESPONSIBILITY
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2013, 10:24:23 AM »
much love to the folks that carry this message and keep this board alive and well!.....peace