Author Topic: Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question  (Read 18923 times)

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Offline 13oClock

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Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question
« on: April 19, 2012, 01:01:57 PM »
Howdy all~

I've read a variety of opinions on how much actual Ibogaine alkoloid is in a TA extract (30%, 50%, 70%)... and I've ordered some TA from IbogaWorld and was instructed to take some 3.8 grams of it.  Well... the total mg per kg of body weight is going to vary greatly if the Ibogaine conceptration of the TA is 30, 50 or 70%.  Assuming it's 70% thats 14.7mg/kg which I understand is about right for a flood dose.  However, I've never heard of a TA having 70% Ibogaine alkoloid.  In fact, I've more often heard of it being between 30-50% which would drop it to 10.5mg/kg — and lower, far below the flood dose threshhold.

And so my question is for anyone who has experience with the Ibogaworld TA extracts.  I don't want to underdose, I don't want to overdose.  In your experience, what would you guesstimate the Ibogaine % is for the TA extract coming from Ibogaworld is?

Iboga Panacea

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Re: Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2012, 04:41:37 PM »
No way of telling % really unless you can send it to the lab, their stuff seems consistent from what I have heard so you should probably just ask them (Michelle). 

As far as dosing, they have to be careful and always dose people about 1.3-1.9 gr short so I can only guess you weigh between 180-210.  Therefore if that is the case 4.5-5.5 are kind of your range in my opinion.  If you are looking to crack open the head then more, if not then less.  I opt for more and I know most hear do as well, better safe than sorry. 

Just make sure your health is in check, heart and such.

Offline harveyplex

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Re: Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question
« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2012, 06:05:47 PM »
agreed .
KP hits it on the head again ( & breaking it open in the process) .
i am truely a fan .

Iboga Panacea

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Re: Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question
« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2012, 06:56:46 PM »
Only because HP taught me.  Vice versa kindred!

Offline digital_phreedom

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Re: Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question
« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2012, 07:19:04 PM »
It's true that without lab testing you cannot know for sure..

Michelle from IW has told me that their TA is actually PTA, a purified total alkaloid extract, that's been testing in the 70-80% range of activity.

Now, I know this is a touchy subject for some.  There are those out there who think that TA is TA, and that some people are getting ripped off thinking they're buying a stronger form of it.  So I offer these reminders:

First:  There is a difference between TA and PTA.  Taking a homemade TA even, and purifying it further is not that hard.

Second:  You also need to remember that two TA's made the exact same way by the exact same person can still be different if they come from different plants.  The content of the plant also has an affect.

Third:  I have personal experience with IbogaWorld's TA and their HCL, and well as several different homemade extracts from friends.. I loved the HCL, and could easily tell that it was simply ibogaine hcl.  IW's TA is, in my opinion, incredibly strong.. Out of all the homemade extracts that I have had, only one has ever been as strong as IW's.  It came to me by the way of a dear friend, and it was amazing, but all the other homemade's I've tried have been maybe half as strong as IW's TA, or less.

Lastly:  Remember that IW tends to recommend large doses.  The doses they recommend you take of their TA/HCL, if you do the math, are usually well over 22mg/kg.  So keep that in mind.  I usually tell people they don't need near as much as what Michelle recommends, and I always recommend you do your best to gauge the strength of what you have, and then do the math to calculate a mg/kg dosage.
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Offline Avendagold

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Re: Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2012, 07:05:01 AM »
My basic understanding about TA from Iboga World is as follows.  Normal Total Alkaloids (TA) contains 30-40% ibogaine, 10-20% other iboga alkaloids and 50ish% inert stuff, whereas Precipitated/Purified Total Alkaloid (PTA) is 60-80% ibogaine with a bit of other Iboga alkaloids (ibogaline, ibogamine and Tabernanthine).   

To make PTA, you take normal TA and add in acetone and hydrochloric acid (HCL).  This removes the 50% inert stuff which is called Residual Alkaloids (RA).  RA is a black gunk that is useless and is thrown away.  With the 50% RA gone, you are now left with the remaining 50% Iboga alkaloids; this is called PTA HCL.  Because half of the TA has been removed, the remaining alkaloids have all doubled in percentage, hence 60-80% Ibogaine (up from 30-40% in TA).

As an aside, to get Ibogaine HCL, you then boil the PTA HCL in 95% ethanol for a few hours and it gets rid of the other alkaloids, leaving you with pure Ibogaine, or Ibogaine HCL to give it it's correct name. 

So TA and PTA are very different compounds.  If I understand correctly form this discussion thread, what Iboga World sells is not really TA, but PTA HCL, and that explains why it is quoted as 70% Ibogaine.  That would explain why their TA is so much stronger and consistently high in Ibogaine....it's actually PTA HCL, not TA!

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Offline crazylife

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Re: Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2012, 09:24:46 AM »
* Deleted.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 12:52:02 PM by crazylife »

Offline 13oClock

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Re: Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2012, 04:00:07 PM »
Thank you for the responses.

I should add here, my initial math was wrong.  I was calculating mg/lb, and not mg/kg. 

I am 180 pounds, or 81 kilo.

And so, if the IW TA extracts are really at 70%, 3.8 grams would equate to 2660mg of active ingredient.  This is 32mg/kg at the recommended 3.8 grams dose.   And if it's not quite 70%, and it's say 50% that still 23mg/kg.  Far above the threshold in either case for a flood dose.

With this new equation it seems the recommended dose given to me by Michelle is way outside the threshold range.   

It seems as though I may only need 1/2 to 2/3 what she recommended to me.  Would you agree with this?

Iboga Panacea

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Re: Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2012, 04:48:29 PM »
No.

I have had Iboga World TA for my 1 flood dose.  Since then I have had only original TA batches and they are quite compatible.  I even had left over Iboga World TA and I compared them mg to mg with the original made TA and if anything the original was stronger. 

I was very dissapointed that I did not go as far as I could have with my Iboga World dose range.  I could have easily gone 2 grams more, and I weigh the exact same as you, and was recommended the exact same amount by the exact same person.  To those that know, wink wink it is speaking to the choir and there are things we can't really say (like Iboga is 99% of the time safe) but for those that are new to Iboga or unfamiliar or what not they always think it is scary and harmful if one goes for the gold.  No way to convince and I don't want to.  I can only speak for myself, I would have at least done 1 gram more if I could do it over again.  It's not like you can do this every day so that one opportunity should be taken as such, like a bull by the horns and full throttle. 

By the way I am only speaking from experience, to all this % shit, I don't really know nor am I gonna give it one iota of attention.

But suit yourself
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 04:51:21 PM by Kambogahuasca Panacea »

Offline digital_phreedom

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Re: Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2012, 12:03:15 AM »
^^

Well there you have it..

Based on what KP said, you can tell that Iboga can very greatly from batch to batch, as does the way it affects individual people..

I have nothing but respect for KP, and I can tell you that he definitely knows what he's talking about.  But my experience with IW's stuff has been the complete opposite of his.  The "TA" I have gotten from IW has always been incredibly, and almost always way stronger than the homemade TA's I've had.. But, another respected member of our forum has had a very different experience.

So it seems there's not much of a way to give a definitive answer to your query.  Perhaps you should start lower than IW's recommended dose, and then you can always take more if it feels right?  Because as KP said, it is certainly possible to calculate a dose based on other people's recommendations, and end up wishing you would have taken more.

But in almost every case it's much wiser to err on the side of caution - so I would definitely recommend starting lower, and leaving yourself the option of working up to more.

(And of course, absolutely no disrespect KP - I'm glad you chimed in.  This has been a pretty hotly debated topic, and there are some varying opinions on it.  But I hold your opinions with the highest regard)
Embrace this moment, remember: We are eternal. All this pain is an illusion.

Iboga Panacea

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Re: Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2012, 12:55:17 PM »
Thanks for the generous words Digi, I also very much value your opinion.  That being said I am doing a flood in under a week with homemade and I will be able to compare/contrast. 

So that might be a safer bet for our newcomers that get Ibo World, compared to the more blossomed soldiers that make their own. 

Offline Avendagold

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Re: Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2012, 04:22:04 PM »
Kambogahuasca Panacea - you said "By the way I am only speaking from experience, to all this % shit, I don't really know nor am I gonna give it one iota of attention."  I am a newbie so I defer to the experienced members on this forum, but without using percentages, how else to figure out dosing for that first time flood?  It sounds as if you are saying just take the upper dose anyway because Ibogaine is safe and you'll regret not having had enough.  Should I be forgetting about the recommendations and go 1-2 grams higher?
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Offline harveyplex

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Re: Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2012, 05:18:15 PM »
  ;)

Offline digital_phreedom

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Re: Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2012, 10:50:17 PM »
Kambogahuasca Panacea - you said "By the way I am only speaking from experience, to all this % shit, I don't really know nor am I gonna give it one iota of attention."  I am a newbie so I defer to the experienced members on this forum, but without using percentages, how else to figure out dosing for that first time flood?  It sounds as if you are saying just take the upper dose anyway because Ibogaine is safe and you'll regret not having had enough.  Should I be forgetting about the recommendations and go 1-2 grams higher?

That partially plays into the debate that has gone on concerning different TA's, different sources, and different dosing methods...

There are those who are less concerned with figuring out strength and mg/kg ratio, and more concerned with how it feels and doing things intuitively - and then there are those like me, who recommend getting as much information as you can, trying to gauge the strength of your iboga as best you can and make an informed decision on your dosing, etc.

Now, obviously I have my own opinions, and other people have theirs - and I will say that some of our members who tend to say "eat more iboga!" a little more often than others, they have had great success, are good friends of mine, and most of them I would trust with my life - we just happen to have different opinions on the subject.

In my eyes, it is very important to try to find out exactly how strong your product is, and do the math and dose accordingly - at least when you're shooting for flood levels.  Anything under that is probably save to "eyeball" and just feel out the right amount.

Again, this has been a touchy subject in the past, and I don't wish to stir angry debate - but I'm glad this has come up, as I feel it's something that our long-time members need to weigh in on.

But again - it is my personal opinion that you should always start lower, and work your way up.  Please put safety first.  This stuff is very powerful medicine, we are not doctors, and in the end it will be you in control of your own life.

Take your time.  Breathe.  Read. Learn. Read some more. Ask questions.  Do everything you can until you feel like you know all you need to make the most informed decision possible.
Embrace this moment, remember: We are eternal. All this pain is an illusion.

Offline crazylife

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Re: Iboga TA from Ibogaworld Dosing Question
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2012, 03:15:11 AM »
Kambogahuasca Panacea - you said "By the way I am only speaking from experience, to all this % shit, I don't really know nor am I gonna give it one iota of attention."  I am a newbie so I defer to the experienced members on this forum, but without using percentages, how else to figure out dosing for that first time flood?  It sounds as if you are saying just take the upper dose anyway because Ibogaine is safe and you'll regret not having had enough.  Should I be forgetting about the recommendations and go 1-2 grams higher?

Take into account that theres alot of dick waving that goes off on this forum, which suprises me. It would only take a few cases of someone dying of this stuff and it could be made illegal globally, which would spoil it for everyone.