Author Topic: Iboga <S Ayahuasca  (Read 3660 times)

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Offline RhythmSpring

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Iboga <S Ayahuasca
« on: January 26, 2015, 05:33:44 PM »
<S = <3 + VS.

The following is going to be rambling, improvisatory, self-indulgent and autobiographical. Be forewarned.

I just got back from a walk that had a very interesting train of thought. Let me try to relate it to you, at the risk of sounding like a crazy person.

I have invited both Ayahuasca and Iboga to do some healing work in my life, and that's bound to create (or unearth) some very intense energies. I have heard before of how the two energies conflict in a way, and lately I have begun to experience this conflict, and man, is it heart-wrenching.

I can't speak too much in metaphysical terms, only in how the two energies have affected my life recently. As some of you may know, I've created/been blessed with a torrential autoimmune condition that has come very close to crippling me numerous times. Let's just say I have some problems, but substance addiction isn't one of them.

Last summer I did some Iboga microdosing (on the big side) followed by some mushrooms. Somehow, the result of this was a complete breakdown of my worldview and path in life. I am (or was, maybe) a recording engineer/producer. Somehow, I realized a terrible truth about recorded and recording music: Recorded music, if it is not actively beckoning one to participate in live music (like those wonderful Bwiti recordings) it is, cosmically, procrastination, false emotional comfort. It fills the gap where society has broken apart. (Hmmm, I guess this isn't a terrible thing... I mean, we can't all come together right now, can we? ...Can we? Would a lack of recorded music force us to come together and make it, solving all the relational woes of humanity?)

Moreover, the process of recording and producing music, from the engineer/producer's standpoint, is that of feeding off of, or catering to another person's creative energy. It's a process of, in a sense, becoming an energetic whore, if you're a good producer. You really get into what their singing about, the style of their music, etc.... the problem being that the engineer possibly loses touch with his/her *own* voice, soul, spirit, etc. I have experienced this. It's what makes me a great producer, and it is also what makes me spiritually unhealthy/off center.

Iboga showed me this. To my disappointment and wonder, I had no choice but to accept this truth. I felt my brain profoundly change and reorient based on this new information. It was okay, though, because I'm also a musician--and therefore I should use that as my creative outlet. In fact, I already knew that I was first and foremost a musician, and secondly a producer.

...

Fast forward two months: The noribogaine glow wears off and the mushroom trips become stressful and constricted. What to do next? Try Iboga again? No. Hmmm, one might think to try something different, right? From an outside perspective.

Enter Ayahuasca. I make a brew, and it is good. It is direct healing. It is nothing but healing. Physically, emotionally, everything. (I look forward to doing more, I think.)

But then, I think--why wasn't Iboga this healing? I thought Iboga was the master, king of all healers. Actually, that is the question I pose to you.

But my further thinking goes like this: Perhaps Iboga (and Salvia, another powerful kappa-opioid receptor) deals with a much more broad kind of right-making in the universe. They deal with the Story of the universe, the Earth, mankind. They are the behind-the-scenes, the background, the puppeteers. They are all-encompassing, the beginning, the Origin.

Ayahuasca, on the other hand, is direct healing, but man, you gotta use that stuff CORRECTLY, otherwise, it could fall out of line with universal Truth pretty easily. It is a tool, and it needs to be used with the utmost care, love, and good intentions.

Iboga, on the other hand, you take, and BAM--you are MADE RIGHT with the universe.

What am I saying? Am I making sense? Hmmm...

Here's the important part: Ayahuasca is leading me in the opposite direction of where Iboga+mushrooms was leading me. Iboga+mushrooms was leading me toward being a creative musician and leaving the recording business behind. Ayahuasca is leading me back towards recording engineering, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

On the cosmic scale: I think Ayahuasca is a part of Iboga. Ayahuasca is a tool of great healing within the story. Ayahuasca is a more concentrated energy whereas Iboga is a "take a step back and view the whooole picture" thing. Or, I could be making gross generalizations that, when you think about it, apply to both sacred medicines.

Again, my question: How could both medicines be so *completely* healing, and yet are somehow contrary in nature? Help me reconcile Father Iboga and Mother Ayahuasca so that they can make love in my mind!

Man, I do sound crazy.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 05:36:05 PM by RhythmSpring »

Offline RhythmSpring

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Re: Iboga <S Ayahuasca
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2015, 06:15:39 PM »
And my fear with working with Ayahuasca is that, if I don't feel in-line with truth, and consciously *present* (which I dont', at the moment), Ayahuasca will work on healing my out-of-line, out-of-it self, and so later, when I work with Salvia and Iboga again (which keep me in-line and present), they will destroy all the healing work I've done with Ayahuasca. That's my fear. Does that make sense?

Iboga Panacea

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Re: Iboga <S Ayahuasca
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2015, 06:31:20 PM »
These sacraments are like a door opening into the spirit world.  How you get there has as much controversy as do religions. 

Aya is more fleeting and Iboga sticks better

The source of the Iboga is a major factor presenting a large spectrum of variables in experience and overall benefits.

Offline RhythmSpring

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Re: Iboga <S Ayahuasca
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2015, 07:34:07 PM »
Hi Kampum, formerly known as Kambogahuasca! I knew you'd be the first to respond.

I just came across this thread on the DMT-Nexus which is giving me much faith that Salvia and Ayahuasca can work out their differences: https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&t=24444

Kampum, I think it depends on what you are talking about that is fleeting or sticks better. So far, in my experience, Ayahuasca seems to "stick better" when it comes to physical health. "Cura, cura, cuerpecito..."

Iboga Panacea

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Re: Iboga <S Ayahuasca
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2015, 10:55:56 PM »
Your not very experienced with Aya are you?  Not too much with Iboga either if I recall. 


Iboga Panacea

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Re: Iboga <S Ayahuasca
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2015, 10:57:32 PM »
Sticking better is in reference to remembering the teachings as well as the long term glow.  It's not a debate, anectodatal fact.

Offline RhythmSpring

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Re: Iboga <S Ayahuasca
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2015, 03:42:51 AM »
I would like to keep this thread about reconciling the two medicines within the same framework, not about which is better.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2015, 12:44:06 AM by RhythmSpring »

Offline Entheologist

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Re: Iboga <S Ayahuasca
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2015, 03:38:04 PM »
Very interesting stuff. What insights has salvia been giving you? I've only experienced salvia twice but those two 20 minute experiences have taken me over a decade to integrate.

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Re: Iboga <S Ayahuasca
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2015, 04:36:17 PM »
Returning to the thread, I've come to the conclusion that these two shouldn't be mixed in anyway whatsoever.  Especially Iboga before Ayahuasca is dangerous, 1-2 weeks in between at least.  IME Ayahuasca 2-3 days before a flood is safe though.  I've had issues experimenting and trying to find the balance of interactions.  Mostly serotonin syndrome symptoms are the risk here and no one should have to go through that hell.

Offline RhythmSpring

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Re: Iboga <S Ayahuasca
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2015, 08:06:30 PM »
Well, this thread isn't about combining the two or taking them near each other. It's about how the energies conflict. Because, let's face it, once you've taken Iboga, the Iboga spirit can be with you for the rest of your life, and the same goes for Ayahuasca.

Salvia does/did a *lot* for me. Serenity and equanimity. Detachment from thought processes in order to see how they are not my voices, but disembodied voices. Increased realness factor of Reality. Lighter eating habits. Lots of insight into my personal relationships, and just a general instilling of humility. Seeing that all matter is infused with consciousness. Seeing how everyone is connected viscerally to the same source.

Offline ddraig

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Re: Iboga <S Ayahuasca
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2015, 11:24:09 AM »
Anecdotally, I have experienced this conflict during the experiences long after I took one or the other. Made a very (too) powerful aya analogue brew to try it for the first time.  In some ways I suppose it was like a DMT Trip. I could feel that the spirit was aware of my iboga connection, and I started getting iboga-type visions of leaves and vines and feeling the iboga energies but they were stripped away to reveal a cold metallic 'reality' underneath. Further travels in that journey were like those old vector graphics  http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VzurAus5CHc/UazqcauE_SI/AAAAAAAAGqU/Bz4wKA7XoXY/s1600/star_wars_large.png

Taking an iboga flood for the last time many months after, I saw a bearded winged-fingered entity powerfully show up right away that looked like Jung's Philemon but in detailed 'vector graphics' form: http://jungcurrents.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/jung-philemon-jungcurrents-copy1.jpg
and had bark skin, a beard and wild shaggy hair (rather than being bald). It hovered over me, and communicated. The wings were like directions, and it motioned I would be going one way rather than the other. The point is, it made the point to take the appearance of the ayahausca 'vector graphics' display, which stuck with me. This was the journey where I was give a lot of nonsensical repetitive and mundane visuals.

In hindsight iboga was teaching me to live my lessons that it taught me (which I can honestly say, I was not doing sufficiently), rather than relying on repeated 'trips', and in a more subtle way than aya, it was showing that it was aware of my ayahausca.  usage.

From my own experience, these plants and what they provide are gifts and are to be used sacramentally, and when used with this reverence, combined with ritual, it magnifies their power. Aya, I found distant and harsh, more an external journey, where I was exposed, and wish I had a shaman with me. No doubt my approach to it could have been better. With iboga I have always felt safe and protected, more an internal journey, and more healing. Iboga is my plant teacher, was drawn to it, so my relationship is better.

I'm at the point where I have not relied on plant teachers for some time, trying to live the lessons iboga taught me. (and I do not judge people that continue to use plant teachers, just myself, I have needed to work on what I was taught) When I get more time, I will post in the discussion area about an initiation ritual and healing I went through with the Mankind Project, an amazing group of men. I cant post any details, since that ruins it for new initiates, but I can talk about results. It further confirmed the shamanic work I have been doing (journeying via drums and getting immense healing), and the healing energies that a group of people (men in this case) can bring without the need for plant allies. The healing was in some ways comparable to my first iboga flood, and in some ways it was just as purgative, though I do not want to (or can) compare them. Indeed I saw men energetically purge into buckets. And this is what iboga showed me in the first flood, that there is so much more to us than flesh and blood!  :D


« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 10:05:38 PM by ddraig »

Offline Entheologist

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Re: Iboga <S Ayahuasca
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2015, 01:57:06 PM »
Salvia does/did a *lot* for me. Serenity and equanimity. Detachment from thought processes in order to see how they are not my voices, but disembodied voices. Increased realness factor of Reality. Lighter eating habits. Lots of insight into my personal relationships, and just a general instilling of humility. Seeing that all matter is infused with consciousness. Seeing how everyone is connected viscerally to the same source.

Observing which voices are disembodies sounds really interesting. I just did an iboga flood and a girl in the group walked into my vision, I saw a blue, shiny smooth surfaced face appear then it cried, I could feel the emotions with the cry (it was a mix of sadness, and something that felt good, it felt female). About 2 seconds later I heard a physical cry come from one of the other rooms. She sounds like shes psychic, she meets everyone in the group in psychedelic space and observes everything they're doing in crystal clear detail. When I OBE on iboga, its like nighttime, I can only see  things when they get up close to me. I wonder if this can be used as a guage for how open your third eye is. Afterall, its the 3rd eye that lets you see this psychedelic dimension.

Offline Empath84

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Re: Iboga <S Ayahuasca
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2017, 03:51:11 AM »
You cant judge iboga by microdosing you  a full flood to fully understand it !