General => General Discussion => Topic started by: I-man on March 31, 2015, 05:13:23 PM

Title: Hcl vs TA for dual diagnosis
Post by: I-man on March 31, 2015, 05:13:23 PM
I know this topic has been discussed before but I am trying to decide which is the best option for me. I heard that pure ibogaine is better for addictions and TA can be better for mental health issues. I have both BP II and addiction issues although not physically dependent on any substances right now. Ideally, it seems a combination would be best but I am not sure if I have access to Hcl at the moment. I have also heard that the TA can be more dangerous than pure ibogaine, so would doing a full flood on TA be advisable? Seems this stuff is dangerous enough without taking unnecessary risks.

I am still on the fence on how much to dose, I understand it is highly subjective but input is appreciated. Don't want to go too high as my mental health has been a bit fragile lately, also don't want to undershoot it. I am thinking somewhere around 20 - 22 mg/kg and michelle from IW suggested around 24mg/kg. Seems like a tricky business. I am only planning on doing this once so I want to get this right the first go.

Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Hcl vs TA for dual diagnosis
Post by: shinobidef on April 02, 2015, 02:12:17 PM
Someone in the forum mentioned that HCI can worsen mental difficulties, although I haven't yet seen any evidence that that's the case, and that it's more suited to drug addiction. It has the advantage, however, of being easier to dose and appears to be a cleaner and less intense experience. 

I think the main issue with TA is that you don't quite know how strong it is, making dosing more difficult. One guy I was reading about used all three (RB, TA and HCI) in three separate flood occasions - he found that the RB was by far the heaviest on the body (which I think most people would agree with), but definitely had more afterglow and allowed him to feel closer to the plant. The HCI he found easiest on the body but the hardest psychologically and with the least afterglow, with the TA somewhere in between. Quite a few people combine with TA with the HCL as few people can handle ingesting large amounts of RB.

I don't think anyone will be able to recommend a dosage based on the forum rules, but I'd recommend reading a number of the trip reports on erowid, if you haven't already, and look at the weight and dosage of the reviewer, although of course everyone is different so there are no hard and fast rules. Whatever you choose, make sure you stagger your doses and ensure you have a sitter, ideally someone who has some experience.

As you're quite sensitive, I'd probably not go as high as 20-22mg/kg. This is a seriously long read from a guy who took 18mg/kg https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=103568 but I quote "I can attest that this dose of ibogaine was thousands of times stronger than anything else I've ever experienced". In fairness, he did only quit his opiates a week before, but then goes on to take some Kratom and I think he also has a joint during the trip. I'm not sure how much this may have intensified it.
Title: Re: Hcl vs TA for dual diagnosis
Post by: dreamedm on April 03, 2015, 12:58:48 PM
Two people supposedly got depersonalization from Ibogaine (Iboga TA, on the other hand, can cure DP, as per my 2nd link.) Ibogaine HCL might be safer for drug addicts, as the duration of the experience is shorter (though I'm not sure about this, either). Iboga TA, on the other hand, seems to be more effective in treating various mental disorders.

Sources: http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/31722-depersonalization-ibogaine/

Whatever you decide to do, you must make sure to first take a test dosage, to ensure you don't have any allergic or adverse reactions, prior to doing the full flood dose. (I think one of the people in the depersonalization forum may have had an adverse reaction to the test dose, but did the flood anyway). You should also make sure to visit the doctor first, if you can, to make sure you don't have any serious preexisting heart or liver conditions.

If you like, you can also speak to my provider, Ron, from costaiboga.com He's been treating people with various mental "disorders" with Iboga TA, which he believes is much better for mental disorders. Since you're addicted to drugs, as well, however, perhaps you should speak to him and maybe some other providers and see what they say.

One thing is for sure, do not take any drugs during your experience, as that can be fatal.
Title: Re: Hcl vs TA for dual diagnosis
Post by: shinobidef on April 04, 2015, 04:45:59 AM
Sources: http://www.dpselfhelp.com/forum/index.php?/topic/31722-depersonalization-ibogaine/

Thanks for the links - will check them out

I-Man, if you decide to do it alone, rather than go with a provider, I'd recommend extracting your own TA from your RB
Title: Re: Hcl vs TA for dual diagnosis
Post by: dreamedm on April 06, 2015, 12:08:05 PM
If you're doing a flood dose, you absolutely need at least one sitter. You will not be able to walk around much and you will not want to drink water - which you must, so you don't dehydrate. I was taking sips every now and then. Your sitter will help you go to the bathroom and bring you water. It's good to have an experienced sitter, someone who did Iboga themselves, so they can help you if/when you have some rough moments, etc. They will also need to make sure you're sipping water every now and then.