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Eboka General => Eboka Talk => Topic started by: 1j1 on March 13, 2012, 07:37:36 PM

Title: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: 1j1 on March 13, 2012, 07:37:36 PM
Dear One, first post here.

Sorry if I'm posting a repeat question, but I haven't found other posts specifically relating to this.

I am looking to do Iboga to help me overcome/deal with OCD, which is ruining my life atm.

The obsessions focus around many things, but mainly center around the fear of harming the body in some way; obviously, ironically, reading that Ibogaine can be fatal is scary and prays on the worrisome part of me but so too is living like this scary, hellish, horrible and despite all my support I feel like I need some assistance.

I am getting a liver an kidney blood test done and an ECG (is that the same as the EKG? it's what my doctor said I should get) though this: "The following factors have been identified as having caused death:

having a pre-existing heart condition, sometimes one not detectable by EKG" worries me (taken from: http://www.ibogaine.co.uk/info.htm).

Is there any way of testing for this heart condition? Any other advise that anyone can give me with regards to health concerns? If it wasn't potentially fatal I'd take it in an instant.

Any advise would be appreciated.

Love
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: insomnia on March 13, 2012, 09:14:16 PM
I was quite scared about it too, I even asked this question in my thread in this sub-forum.

But the more I looked into it the safer I felt.
You have to put it into perspective. Is Iboga Dangerous? Is there more deaths as compared to the amount of people who die from Opiate overdose?  What else can you compare the death-rate of Iboga intake as compared to other things in life?

So I mean there is a chance one can die from iboga, but there is a chance one can die from many things. You could die by walking out the door of your house and an icicle falls through your skull, but that shouldn't stop you from leaving the house. You could die from boarding a bus, and that bus gets hit by an out of control semi, but that shouldn't prevent you from boarding a bus.

You could get a hot shot of heroin on the first injection, but that doesn't stop people from getting high.

There's a lot of things, some of the ones I just listed are pretty uncommon and all, but the point is its really not as dangerous as led to believe, if you put it into perspective.

Calaquendi's post in the second link I give at the end of this post, is what put things into perspective for me. Hopefully it can do the same for you. 
But I am sure you will want to wait for one of the many people who frequent this board to answer before you feel okay about it.

Plus it all depends on what exactly you want to take Iboga for in the first place.  Is it to detox from an addiction that can only lead to death in the long run? Is it just to "trip"? is it to learn the faults of one's self and live a better life afterward? etc. You need to think about that as well, and possibly weigh the costs and benefits of doing such a thing.

Here are the Threads from this forum that answer the question in a number of ways
http://eboka.info/index.php?topic=487.msg4980
http://eboka.info/index.php?topic=254.0
http://www.myeboga.com/fatalities.html


I hope this helps a bit, and makes you think a bit.
Hope the best for you.
Peace and Love

Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: lalababa on March 14, 2012, 12:00:40 AM
For my size, I took a heavy dose, yet never felt so peaceful...I never once felt in danger.  Your biggest worry would be slipping while you need to use the bathroom...have a sitter.. you will be fine.
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: crazylife on March 14, 2012, 01:03:45 AM
Does it have to be a flood for a physcological problem? I thought that was more important to reset chemistry for people with chemical addictions.
If your worried maybe you could ease yourself in and take 300mg of Ibogaine or something, and build up from there.
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: GratefulDad on March 14, 2012, 01:49:53 AM
For my first flood, before there was all the talk about deaths, I took probably 48mgs/kg of pure iboga alkaloids to kick methadone.  5 grams of TA at 60% pure times 63 kgs is 47-48 mgs/kg of pure iboga alks...  That is double the recommended flood dose range for hardcore addiction..  One of the most profound experiences of my life, and I never once thought I was going to die..  I hadn't even fathomed it..  Please note, however, I am not a normal case by a long shot..  The ECG is the same as EKG, BTW..  Get the check up, and then try out a small dose to familiarize yourself with iboga.  After that, see what you think about a full flood.
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: mo on March 14, 2012, 02:02:36 AM
dear 1j1,
you might want to check out my post on a scientific paper on the topic i have found a while ago:
http://eboka.info/index.php?topic=686.msg6607#msg6607
if i may re quote:
"To date, medical monitoring of patients treated with ibogaine showed, as far as we are informed, no benefit. People died unexpectedly after the monitoring phase, and we have no information about any case of successful life-saving measures."
check out what they say about the importance of the traditional environment..
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: Flickering on March 14, 2012, 04:40:10 AM
I'm going to pitch in and say, I do get mild heartburn from time to time, and what I think are palpitations - awareness of the heart frequently skipping a beat. But two doctors say I'm fine, and three ECGs (one 24-hour holter monitor) say I DON'T have an arrhythmia, which is bizarre... I'm not convinced it's all in my head.

Anyway, the last doctor I saw had never heard of ibogaine, and according to her I'm totally healthy.

So if I don't come back and report in a couple of weeks, I might have died on ibogaine.

*shrug* I've prepared for that eventuality.
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: insomnia on March 14, 2012, 08:40:46 AM
I'm going to pitch in and say, I do get mild heartburn from time to time, and what I think are palpitations - awareness of the heart frequently skipping a beat.

Do you consume Caffeine? Caffeine is known to cause this. I have gotten them before in my lifetime as well.
Cant necessarily say mine were from caffeine, but when It happened to me, I looked into it a lot because I was a bit worried, so I came across a source that said that larger amounts of caffeine. Soda/coffee/tea throughout the day can cause it.

I was drinking A LOT of tea at the time, so who knows.

It is just something to take into account at least. ;)

I think everyone should try to lower their caffeine intake, everyone acts like its nothing, but its probably the worlds most used drug, under cigarettes..

I remember going to NA and everyone (including me) would be huddled around the Coffee machine trying to get the last bit before someone else did.
Talking about how we were clean for months etc.  Sitting drinking 3 cups of coffee, and smoking a quarter of a pack of cigarettes in the one hour long meeting.. lol. I thought it was kind of hypocritical.. But hey, one step at a time eh?

For my first flood, before there was all the talk about deaths, I took probably 48mgs/kg of pure iboga alkaloids to kick methadone.  5 grams of TA at 60% pure times 63 kgs is 47-48 mgs/kg of pure iboga alks...  That is double the recommended flood dose range for hardcore addiction..  One of the most profound experiences of my life, and I never once thought I was going to die..  I hadn't even fathomed it..  Please note, however, I am not a normal case by a long shot..  The ECG is the same as EKG, BTW..  Get the check up, and then try out a small dose to familiarize yourself with iboga.  After that, see what you think about a full flood.

That's quite inspiring GratefulDad.

See those doses you are talking about right there would kind of scare me right now still, but that's just because I haven't taken it yet.


But is there any evidence whatsoever of anyone dying from Iboga "overdose"? like is overdose even a possibility?
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: roy d on March 14, 2012, 09:34:41 AM

Hi Insome,

GD is a hard head and takes large doses of everything.  Except for GD 48mg is one hell of a dose.  Also, he was also quite sick but it worked.  Just so ya know GD will be the first to admit that he takes most things in large doses.

Best,

  Roy
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: Calaquendi on March 14, 2012, 12:13:54 PM
Good advice here...welcome to the forums. I often find I want someone or something to take the reigns for me, and make a hard decision, instead of having to make it myself - scary shit like this especially. There is some guidance, and some information here, but ultimately this is like any of Life's other endeavors and it is swim at your own risk.

Some of the deaths we know about could have been prevented, perhaps most of them, it is hard to say. and the data that IS available is at best incomplete. There is simply no way to know for sure all of the correct numbers.

I have not heard of anyone dying from an ibogaine 'overdose' - not once. This of course doesn't mean that hasn't happened, I just have never heard about one or read about it.

I do think the main thing is to have oneself checked out medically, And to always have a sitter present who knows somewhat of what you are doing. Don't freak out if (when) you puke for instance...things like this. Always, always take your time.

I have included a recently published paper - I think it is the most current one to date, I have not read it in it's entirety.

Good luck and God bless, Cal
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: roy d on March 14, 2012, 10:45:27 PM

Howdy 1j1,

Not sure how long you have been around but since you asked for tips I would say make sure your not taking other drugs especially those SSRI/NI type for it really is a big deal.  Thing is you just can not stop taking the SS type for you can get electrical shocks if you quit too soon.

Best,

  Roy
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: Flickering on March 15, 2012, 04:43:55 AM
I'm going to pitch in and say, I do get mild heartburn from time to time, and what I think are palpitations - awareness of the heart frequently skipping a beat.

Do you consume Caffeine? Caffeine is known to cause this. I have gotten them before in my lifetime as well.
Cant necessarily say mine were from caffeine, but when It happened to me, I looked into it a lot because I was a bit worried, so I came across a source that said that larger amounts of caffeine. Soda/coffee/tea throughout the day can cause it.

I was drinking A LOT of tea at the time, so who knows.

It is just something to take into account at least. ;)

I drink coffee occasionally, such as when I haven't slept all night and I have work the next day (I work 9-hour days, was working 14-16 hours until recently). Factor depression and it's just not manageable otherwise. And I definitely have noticed the palpitations and arrhythmia a lot more after drinking coffee, or even just after eating chocolate in a few cases... I looked it up too a while ago and this is apparently a common effect from any stimulant, including cocaine or speed. Ibogaine, it's worth noting, is classified as a stimulant. We'll see how it goes, and I'll test dose first, but I reckon I'll be fine.
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: insomnia on March 16, 2012, 01:48:44 AM
Yeah good thinking.

Just try to remember that before hand, and try not to think to hard on it when you dose the iboga. I cant even count the amount of times I thought I was going to die on entheogen's just because my mind made it worse than what was really happening.

Like Salvia d for instance. I freaked out the first (and last) time I smoked it, for a bit.. My heart felt like it was going 270 bpm, and felt like it was going out of my chest 6 inches! I was so scared I was going to die right then and there... Lol. I just let the mind get the best of me. Salvia D was not a force to be reckoned with for me, and I havent had the balls to do it again since.
But I am thinking about trying it in a better set and setting very soon, as I have been reading into its antiaddictive affects as well! :)


So just dont let any palpitations freak you out on iboga. Just think of something else quick, and dont dwell on it, unless it is obviously something to worry about of coarse.

Good luck.
May the spirit of iboga guide you.
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: Flickering on March 16, 2012, 06:25:24 AM
Yeah, I had a similar experience a few months ago on LSD. It was only my second or third time taking it, too. Was lying down having a mind-blowing insight into the energetic mainframe of the universal consciousness matrix, when I noticed my heart pounding at three beats a second. Funny how fast the mood can change. I was thinking, "Why the hell is it doing that?!" and then, of course, "I'm about to die."

It was very interesting, actually, to see how I reacted to that. First I felt kinda sad about my family and how devastated they'd be to learn how I died, at 21, trying to chase a way out of a depression they closed their ears to years ago. Then I was scared that it was going to hurt like hell. I could really vividly imagine (acid is great like that) just how it would be to have the heart muscle collapse in on itself in a squeezing, crushing, suffocating death grip, trying desperately to pulse and wrenching my body into paroxysms of agony as my fragile human life was snuffed from the earth.

Other than that, though, I handled it pretty well.

I walked into the living room, debated whether I should say anything to my three tripping companions, and finally sat in a dark corner and asked the one who was merely stoned if he could check my pulse. Naturally, he couldn't be bothered to get up. He was stoned.

So I told him I thought I might be about to die. And he and one other friend taunted me for it and reminded me that no one dies from the chemical effects of acid.

All this did was make me think, "They don't care."

I spent the rest of the trip wrestling between logic (true, if anyone's ever died from acid they took a much, much larger dose than I did) and emotion (being utterly convinced that something was very wrong). At one point the room went dark, blacker than black, and I could feel the energy of the universe compress into an incredibly sharp aether blade over my chest, and start pushing. The atmosphere of my surroundings was soaked in death and despair. It was all-consuming.

In the end I started coming down and realised it wasn't beating that fast at all - maybe 120bpm at the worst of it. The time dilative effect was what had confused me. But I still couldn't get comfortable and kept clutching my chest. For about a week after that, I kept getting bizarre sensations in my chest, which I think were psychosomatic, though perhaps there was something wrong with the LSD, even though it seemed to be very high quality. So I went to see the first aforementioned doctor, and he ran an ECG and holter monitor and assured me I was fine. The second, who I asked about ibogaine, came a couple of months after that.

The funny thing is, by no means would I count that one as a bad trip.

For ibogaine, I plan to start micro-dosing on Tuesday while at work, starting very small and taking a slightly larger dose on Wednesday, and slightly larger again on Thursday (maybe do that one after work; will see how I handle it). I hope the anti-depressive and stimulating effect will help get me through the day. I don't mind some slight psychedelia, I've handled myself in public on substances before. The flood dose will be on Saturday or Sunday. I've settled on doing 25 grams - more if possible, but it will depend on how much root bark I can stuff down my throat without purging. I was supposed to do it tomorrow, but I got sick... will have to wait two weeks, to my bitter disappointment.
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: mo on March 16, 2012, 12:11:26 PM
hi flickering,
my last LSD trip (~15 years ago) went similar to what you are describing. after that i had panic attacks - a returning fear and panic when i heard/felt my heart beat - up until i flooded with iboga. i have documented here in the forums what happened - what i battled with and what i could resolve. the reason i am saying this to you is because i came to understand that the fear of the heart beat panic attacks are spiritually meaningful.
and i don't mean airy-fairy nonsense, but most substantially, a primal, archetypical fear. with taking this medicine we are venturing down to the gates of OUR deepest fears. we share this fear..
i think i feel i should write this because i feel it is often being shunned, not welcome, of course.. when, if we are brave, we can embrace it.

you beat and beat and know,
there will be a last beat.
you beat away the fear
you lose yourself in trance and delirium
you love the high,
far below - the fear buried
but it can not be avoided
you will beat a last beat - one day

but you are truly alive!
you are the life that drives the beat!
you might leave this heart one day - but you will never die!

at our core we are eternal - bless you all!
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: Flickering on March 16, 2012, 06:57:49 PM
Quote from: mo
and i don't mean airy-fairy nonsense, but most substantially, a primal, archetypical fear

Yeah, I believe that. There is something incredibly strange, and vulnerable, about being connected to this world by an ugly, pulsating and very fragile muscle located an inch behind the ribcage.

My first mescaline trip took me into this as well. The bizarre nature of being human, life essence concealed within a bag of meat and oozing organs. I saw how subconsciously disturbing it was to us. I wanted to go deeper into it. That was what inspired me to try ayahuasca.
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: roy d on March 16, 2012, 08:05:08 PM

Hi Insom,

I really hate to say this but you asked:

Quote
Is Iboga Dangerous? Is there more deaths as compared to the amount of people who die from Opiate overdose?  What else can you compare the death-rate of Iboga intake as compared to other things in life?

Well how about suicide?  The news was talking about how a lot of the soldiers have committed suicide - a lot.  Some are on their fourth tour after getting wounded.  I am talking about the Staff Sgt who went on a killing spree and it was his fourth tour.  The army Got to know there is going to be trouble.  I respect the troops but not the war the army really does not care about ya - your so cheap and expendable or maybe disposable.  Suicide has taken quite a few lives.

Best,

  Roy


 
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: mo on March 17, 2012, 06:09:05 AM
i hope this is not not getting to  off topic - also, i don't want to look like i impose my spiritual standpoint on the thread..

flickering - you say ugly muscle! that strikes me as amazingly outrageous! i mean, i just wrote my love and encouragement poem to the heart, my embrace, and you call it ugly :) LOL

i am preparing for my next flood - i take tiny micro doses a couple of times per week (no fixed schedule) - and i feel my heart often, and i feel the fear of death often. in my last ayahuasca ceremony i realised something new. it is the attachment with the physical, the clinging to that which will have to be left eventually - the blind identification of the living with the form.

the often talked about spiritual death is about this - freeing, in awareness the 'head in the sand' identification with the form. when it comes to my heart it is a 'head in the sand' 'i am going to die' 'i'm angry' 'i'm panicking'. i recognised this as so fundamental to my personality.

this reminds me off the traditional context. i read somewhere that the bwiti use the iboga, if i may quote from memory - to die and get reborn closer to god.

so, to many this is what iboga can be about - it awakes our primal fears, gives life to them. and they rise in their rage, their fear, their daemonic insanities. and it gives us the courage and the strength to not fall, to not run and shy away, to not dig the head in the sand deeper. but to stand courageous and see it through. to fight off its attacks! to master the fears!

we are spiritual warriors! and with iboga/ayahuasca/kambo/.?!. we are picking up our sword. they are saying 'here, take this!' and we are hearing the call - taking on our inner enemies. we will not be slaves to fears and daemons any more! we are waking up - beware ignorance, beware fear-mongering, beware hate, beware the ego - the people are waking up!

the revolution from within is happening!

IMHO anyways :)
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: onthepathtohealing on March 18, 2012, 11:58:20 AM
are you saying, mo, that i no longer need to be a slave to my fears? i feel like i have just become a "puppet" for something evil and dark to work through. I don't like this one bit, i feel like i've lost every single shred of freedom i have ever possesed, and it is a terrible feeling, to live like this.
i even have to take medication, because if i don't, i get terrible nightmares! but i think the medication is just "repressing" my fears demons and nightmares
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: Iboga Panacea on March 18, 2012, 12:40:47 PM
Unthepath, you have to realize whether here or on the ayahuasca forums you are always saying the same things, same questions, same issues.  It is an exhausting broken record.  Yes and yes!!!  Iboga will bust your noggin so your spirit can develop a proper connection with your soul.  Right now their are blocks and obscurations. 
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: onthepathtohealing on March 18, 2012, 01:33:13 PM
sorry
i have ocd really bad
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: Iboga Panacea on March 18, 2012, 02:00:30 PM
For real?  Is this OCD diagnosed as well?  Sorry I misspelled your name in the previous post.  In all honesty you have a difficult case (family history) so this is no easy issue to pinpoint.  I am glad you are being more forthright now about the bi polar and possible schizophrenia.  Most treatment centers deny people for psychosis but do recommend micro dosing.  I think in Africa they even prioritize people with mental illness' to treat them.  But until Tata Yo chimes in we won't know.  Maybe Rho could tell you he just returned from Ebando.  Or e-mail Juju (Ngalim) and ask if they treat people in a traditional setting that have mental illness' with Iboga.  I don't think you have to hear things or see things to have schizophrenia.
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: mo on March 19, 2012, 01:58:54 AM
onthepathtohealing, iboga and ayahuasca  awoke my deepest fears and gave me the courage and strength to face them. i would say - i was indeed a slave, not even knowing my masters. i would say that i now know what is holding me down - i, myself. it is within - fear, ignorance, the ego. i feel not that i have won, but that i am worthy among worthy opponents. in facing each other in respect we grow and mature.
but - what do i know? .. :) i pray you find peace, take care of yourself!
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: mo on March 19, 2012, 08:01:48 AM
i should really correct myself: iboga dragged me through me fears, something i could not have done - i did not have the strength to face them. having gotten to the the other side, i found myself, well - still alive ;)
Title: Re: Want Iboga's help but scared of dying from complications
Post by: Calaquendi on March 19, 2012, 10:50:47 AM
Damned well said mo - both those last posts are spot on.  The learning curve was the same for me: My first cactus experience was an epic fail, replete with authorities and nudity. I was beyond fearing Death, I was begging for it.

Lo, it did not come, not then at any rate. Instead I just embarrassed the shit out of myself and others, and ended up as the muse for Tool's 'Rosetta Stoned'.

The natives call ayahuasca 'the little death' - this not for naught. It is about the Ego, as mo stated, and negotiating it, not necessarily just killing it - as I have found. I am a ways into my journey, but far from mastering any of these ideas. It is with the help and love of others that I will be able to accomplish this.

Iboga/ibogaine presents special difficulties in that we know of some deaths temporally associated with it - but as yet there is no conclusive evidence that ibogaine was/is the sole culprit. It has not been proven that the medicine alone just killed a person. Have A SITTER...have them check on you OFTEN, take pulse and BP and incorporate some tradition into the experience, I cannot prove this at all but my intuition says that ritual healing requires well, some ritual. Read Bancopuma's article on Bwiti music for some ideas of the why's here - it is a fantastic read, though some of the theory is above my head, I get the general scope of the thing:  http://www.wfmt.info/Musictherapyworld/modules/mmmagazine/issues/20030613105603/20030613112009/Maas_MTT.pdf

God bless you people...Cal