Eboka.Info

Eboka General => Eboka Talk => Topic started by: RavAv on June 30, 2010, 03:37:02 PM

Title: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: RavAv on June 30, 2010, 03:37:02 PM
Just like to hear everyone's feeling re:
doing a flood dose all at once vs. dividing the dose in 3 or 4 and staggering the doses every half hour over 1 1/2 hours ???
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: harveyplex on June 30, 2010, 05:07:20 PM
 :o
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: x on June 30, 2010, 06:46:58 PM
Hey Rav.

The first few tx I did, I gave the dose all at once.
Now, I give staggered, every half hour or 45 minutes. I keep it in a 3-4 hour window.
When I was talking to a very experienced provider in the beginning, and describing giving the dose at once, he said "No-one has given medicine that way in YEARS"
I was just going by the Lotsof protocol.

I like the way I do it now. It seems to allow the person to ease in, allow me to ease in, lets us sync.
Also, some people will not require as much medicine as thought.
As you know, you can feel when a person 'gets there'.

Tia
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: GratefulDad on June 30, 2010, 10:26:30 PM
To tell you the truth, I am really thinking the gradual come on is a lot easier to handle, and I am normally the kind of person who wants to just get something all in at once for the most intense peak.  With other tryptamines, it is almost imperative that I do for a full experience, unless I eat a lot more over longer time.  Which often reaches a point where it's too late to get that intense peak. 

But I think with iboga, since it accumulates, it just keeps building.  A slower ride up will prolong the duration of the trip.  Medical facilities want to get you in, treat you and get you out cured.  I think by going up slower and fully interacting with the experience at a slower pace is definitely a better approach for the psychospiritual aspect, as it's not the drugs one is trying to kick, it's the root of their desire to use.  The visions on a big slam really fast seemed to be hard to understand or even find meaning.  I barely remembered much but a few scenes I wasn't sure how to interpret.  With going up gradually, I get a lot more sensible dialogue in my mind..   

It's a movie instead of and overwhelming flash of randomness..  The iboga will kick cravings and withdrawal, but until you learn why you got those afflictions, you are doomed to repeat them..
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: RavAv on July 01, 2010, 04:57:09 AM
tia - if you are using 5 grams (indiga) of extract how would you (approx) stagger it?
if using 3 grams (TA)?
also what have you seen as  the effect of doing 1 gram of RB for 3 - 4 or more days prior
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: GratefulDad on July 01, 2010, 11:15:49 AM
Probably would do two grams, then one every hour after..  I read Tia said to do it within about 4 hours.  I am sure you could go longer but it would extend the duration of the experience, the longer you take.  3 grams of TA, maybe 500 mgs every 30 minutes or so..  These would be my suggestions, but I don't know for sure of Tia's..

I too am curious about the pre flood dosing with rootbark, as well.. 
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: fallout330 on July 01, 2010, 11:51:05 AM
:o

Nice response HP  ;D
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: x on July 01, 2010, 01:49:30 PM
Rav, I still don't know what Indiga is, honestly. Can you tell me?

The TA I work with is approx 1/3 active alkaloids. 3g TA would be equivalent to 900mg HCl.

I give what some would consider a big 'test' dose. I give one g TA, then another, then another, etc. Sometimes  a little less, sometimes a little more, this depends on instinct and on final dose I'm shooting for.

I have never given 1g RB daily for 3-4 days prior.
I do know that in at least one branch of Bwiti, the initiates are given quantities of RB daily for a week prior to the 'flood' while the purification and initiation rituals are going on.

Tia

Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: Nganga Nobunoni + on July 01, 2010, 04:00:13 PM
Indiga ???

Indra 5x extract' was made by the Danish government many many years ago'

5 grams Indra = 25 grams Iboga rootbark'

I have no clue of how strong this Indra is now' it was powerful stuff a good few years back'

If you know the specific dose you can use this protocol (one I never use)

1 gram of Indra test dose of which will give you 250-300mg alks' wait 4-6 hours' then dissolve the flood dose in a small amount of water and give in one dose'

I seldom use a flood dose as such' my protocol is much more hands on' but sometimes for folks with big habits' you got to knock em out with a high dose of Ibo' then wake em up after a little while' never leave em on there own with a high flood dose' they could go and no come back'


The extract is called INDRA! 1 gram INDRA = 5 grams Iboga' but from my experience I would say INDRA is a wee bit more powerful than 5x' quite possibly 7x' but it is now very old' so there is no real telling of how strong it really is!

Bliss!

Nobu +
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: x on July 01, 2010, 04:37:21 PM
Indra, that's it. Indiga, I was comfortable with that because it sounds like indica, a type of marijuana. Thanks for that, Nobu.
I don't understand the 5x, 7x, but that's okay.
If one g indra is 250-300 alks, then it's just like the TA I use.

No flood, Nobu? I give until person is deep and traveling, but not so deep they don't respond to external physical stimuli.

Love,
T
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: GratefulDad on July 01, 2010, 05:08:38 PM
Well 5X means 25g of bark, equals 5 grams of extract.  It is reduced by 5.  5 times 5, would be 25.  21 grams of bark would make 3 grams of 7X extract..
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: RavAv on July 02, 2010, 02:03:38 AM
okay pardon the glitch in my brain
(where could that have come from  ::) ? )
i meant INDRA
and i can not say if it has lost potency since it was formed
since i was not around to try it then
but i can tell you uit still kick's  ...
i did 5 gms last year by Sara and it caought me totaly off guard in its power
i often work usuing 4 grams for the flood
and even found the flood to be very effective at 3.5
5 gm is FULL
and have had to go up to 7 in some detox's
anyway
thanks everyone for the insights
peace and blessings
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: GratefulDad on July 02, 2010, 02:09:12 AM
I think the indra extract might be what I took my first time with Sara in 04..  And I thought maybe I had taken 2.5 grams of TA cause I ate 5 capsules, but I have been told she used 1 gram capsules, not 500 mg ones like I have.  This would make much more sense for the experience I received.  It was a FULL on flood, and really overwhelming, but it was the most healing I could have ever imagined..  The extract was crystally but a tannish green, almost a bit waxy.  It could be pushed into a ball and stuck together.  I'd do 3-5 g again for a very strong experience..  I was kicking methadone, so I imagine a few boosters would have made it a bit easier, but it was so powerful I was kind of afraid to take it so quickly after.. 
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: Nganga Nobunoni + on July 03, 2010, 10:15:12 PM
I think the indra extract might be what I took my first time with Sara in 04..  And I thought maybe I had taken 2.5 grams of TA cause I ate 5 capsules, but I have been told she used 1 gram capsules, not 500 mg ones like I have.  This would make much more sense for the experience I received.  It was a FULL on flood, and really overwhelming, but it was the most healing I could have ever imagined..  The extract was crystally but a tannish green, almost a bit waxy.  It could be pushed into a ball and stuck together.  I'd do 3-5 g again for a very strong experience..  I was kicking methadone, so I imagine a few boosters would have made it a bit easier, but it was so powerful I was kind of afraid to take it so quickly after..

Indra is a dry lump of plant material' dark on the outside and yellow brown in the middle' like a piece of hash' but crumbly dry!

In capsules it looks quite yellow' and there is no way you can mould it back together once it has been crumbled'

So you took another kind of extract' it was no INDRA bro!

Blessings and Light

Nobu +
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: riverhaven on July 04, 2010, 01:09:52 PM
I did a Sara flood too-- and she did it slowly in pieces-- constantly evaluating me if I needed more.  I'd say I was dosed every 3-4 hours at first and then twice by the 3rd day.  Kratom doses haven't been worked out well and I was definitely in withdrawals most of the time-- I suspect  I needed more than she gave-- but she did keep giving more.  I don't think I would have handled at all an all out dose-- I needed it in pieces over time.  I didn't get my true visions of my responsibility in my addiction until well into day 2. 
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: RavAv on July 04, 2010, 02:16:57 PM
I guess Sara really listens and tunes in to each person's individual need

My flood with Sara made the Matrix's red pill look like candy
1 gm followed by 4 more an hour later

buckle your seat belt - reality just went bye bye
                        :o
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: x on July 04, 2010, 04:30:27 PM
Re tuning in to everyone's individual need, spot on!

One of the troubles with having a standard protocol is that it doesn't account for individual differences and needs. Protocols are guidelines, I've walked very far outside them on numerous occasions. :)

If I had the time and the facilities, I would be with some people much longer than the 4-10 days I am generally there.
I work with time and money constraints many people have. A clinic, ahhh, that would be wonderful. I'm still moving toward an integration house/aftercare facility here in the states. It's the time after the flood that begs attention.

Tia
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: riverhaven on July 04, 2010, 04:37:20 PM
How can we do that in the states, Tia-- it's illegal.  Would you consider a move up to beautful Victoria Island in Canada-- that's where Sassyfras and I are planning on starting our clinic....
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: GratefulDad on July 04, 2010, 04:44:01 PM
Only the treatment with iboga is illegal in the US, but aftercare wouldn't be.  Might be hard to give boosters, but all other therapies would be okay..
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: x on July 04, 2010, 05:02:56 PM
Hey river.
In about ten years I can move anywhere. :)
My two children, 11 and 12, have an excellent network of friends, family, routine right here in southern California. I've raised them 'in a village', so I can certainly travel, and be gone for some weeks at a time, but for now always returning to home base.

GD said it correctly, an integration house will be perfectly legal. A treatment would not take place there. Those happen elsewhere.
(Periodic disclaimer: Ibogaine is illegal in the U.S., and legal treatments are given in Mexico)
That said, I do what I can, quietly, here in the states. There is need.

T
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: riverhaven on July 04, 2010, 07:36:16 PM
Oh boy is there need ... I see it whatever recovery site I visit.
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: RavAv on July 10, 2010, 03:58:56 PM
 a few comments about the differences
1. staggering the flood over too much time might water down the flood - i find the TA tales 45 minutes to one hour to hit, an hour and a half to peak, and lasts about 3 1/2 to 4 hours from when it hits (everyone is different but i've treated a lot of people and find this pretty standard (yeah - one guy took 3 hours till it hit) - if i stagger it over 4 hours , i am losing the affect
2. what i have seen with sara who i work with intenesely is she does stagger the dose AFTER she has already given the flood i.e.: she will give 1 gm, and then an hour later give 3 - 4 more grams to start; then as she feels they need more she staggers it
Title: Re: Flood Dose: Gradual vs. Pow
Post by: Calaquendi on July 10, 2010, 04:41:51 PM
Right on Rav - staggering the dose too much will definitely cause you to 'miss the boat'. I like your and Sara's protocols. I recently was shooting for a big flood using rootbark. This was my second time taking a real big dose of bark. I got really smashed off it -was shooting for 30g (which I did last time) but could only keep 25g in, and that after a colossal purge. I missed my window for getting in to the deepest visionary aspects of the experience because I was gagging down so much raw bark and it took a long time. I find that the TA's and the rootbark come on within 45 minutes like you said, and peak around the 2 or 3 hour mark. For me, that shit lasts forever - I know of people who have done both the hcl and the TA and they say that the TA goes on longer for sure.

This last time was pretty hardcore even though it didn't produce much in the way of visions. I had significant autobiographical recall - which was a bit of a surprise as I have yet to experience it on that level. And the tactile sensations were very heavy - actually pretty uncomfortable for a while. This is probably becuase I was on the threshold of a peak experience with it and just could not find it in myself to eat any more wood at the time. From now on, unless I am in Gabon being fed Wood by a Bwiti - I'll stick to extracting it lol. The bark I had was fantastic material, after ten grams I found it nearly impossible to walk and it stacked up nicely, I just took the last bit of it a little too late to have the full blown flood visions.