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Messages - GratefulDad

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Without going back to watch the whole thing over again, I believe it was about ketamine being thought about for addiction treatment, in how it acted in some kind of fashion similar to iboga, but that was only a tiny aspect of iboga's action, so they are clearly different.  I don't recall all the details, but I think I am gonna give it a try tomorrow.  I think I'll try a very small bump, just to see how it feels.  It only lasts about an hour or two, and without a huge dose, it's much more manageable than the DMT flash.  I realize the DMT might be a little faster, but the ketamine has a gentler onset but lasts a bit longer, so it feels like I have more time to meditate on the flowing thoughts.

No worries, though, I will only give each thing a try as the urge comes, and I will report how things are going for me.  I don't mind being a guinea pig, as long as I can be sure of not doing something that could hurt me.  I don't mean a rough trip, cause if that's what's in store, I am ready for that lesson, but I am thinking more along the lines of drug interactions or something.

I have a couple friends who have given up alcohol and cocaine with LSD..

Thanks, I think I'll try the K, since it only lasts a couple hours at best.  Also, I ain't worried about a bad trip, as I only feel bad when they're is something wrong.  I realize the LSD might pronounce some of the post acute withdrawal, but I seriously doubt it would be rough on me.  I think I will smoke some DMT, though, just because it's been awhile since I had a good DMT trip..  

BTW, the last time I tripped really, I ate 5 hits of LSD (100mics per), ate 1 half gram of MDMA powder, snorted 1 half gram of MDMA powder, ate 1.2 grams of bridgesii extract, snorted 40 mgs of oxycontin (when I had no other opiates and didn't want to be sick), and smoked a lot of herb all night.  While I had a wonderful time, it was all too much and easily forgotten, and I prefer to focus my attention now onto more meaningful experiences.  A single high enough dose of any of those has the ability to give me insight and understanding, but mixing a bunch in a binge like fashion didn't seem to do much but give me a day of entertainment.  I don't think there is anything wrong with that, but it's not something I have done in years..  I am ready to explore, but want to do so consciously..

So I'll decide in the next couple days what I want to do, ain't no rush, but knowing I can safely when I get the urge is enough for me.  Thanks.

Okay, so folks, I did my flood dose on march 2nd, and then about 2-300 mgs of alks once a week, up until last Wednesday.  I have LSD, 2.6 grams of bridgesii extract, some 2cb, some ketamine and some DMT, so I am wondering if/when any of these would be safe to take?  I have no strong desire to do any drugs, but on occasion, as my body is coming back online, I am getting the desire to trip.  Now I wanna be safe, and don't wanna interfere with my recovery, but as I start to feel more normal, and better, I am noticing the urge to trip.  If anyone has any hard data as to why or how long I should wait, I'd love to hear, and am open to suggestions as well.  Thanks everyone for your time!

Introductions / Re: Hello, ibogang. All my love, mik.
« on: March 19, 2010, 10:16:26 PM »
That's hilarious, I too was wondering which one came first, the list or here, since my emails are always out of order on the list..  Sometimes they come twice, and always out of order, often a day late.  Least it seems to all be coming through!  So Mikki is the "ibogang" originator, as it stands?

Yeah, I'll be rich soon, if he doubles it!  LOL  So umm, what's he payin you, mister moderator?

Chris Jenks video on how he does the extraction, from youtube..

I actually feel pretty awesome.  Not 100% but I feel better than when I was on the morphine, especially the last couple weeks at 30 mgs a day.  I get an occasional chill or little goosebumps, but it's very rare.  I have been eating a good bit, doing sit ups, push ups, and riding the exercise bike, not a lot, but enough to get the blood flowing.  

I have also eaten 2-300 mgs of iboga alkaloids once a week since my treatment.  It makes me feel pretty decent, and other than being a bit unmotivated, I feel pretty much back to normal.  The small dose of iboga actually makes me feel better about 12-24 hours after I eat it and lasts for most of the week.  I get an increased mood booster and boost in energy but also get a little bit less sleep than I would like.  

I have read that rhodeola rosea can help after treatment but I haven't tried it yet.  Melatonin can help with sleep after iboga.  Also, the biggest factor in making me feel pretty normal has been medical grade cannabis, anytime I start feeling a little rough.  Weed makes the very occasional goosebumps, almost unnoticeable.  They have reduced over the last couple weeks, but they weren't ever horrible, and the weed made it easier to eat well, sleep, and take away the blank, drained feeling.  

Like I said, still not loads of energy, but I feel pretty close to back to normal.  All the stuff I mention is so minor compared to what real withdrawal is like, that I don't want to come off sounding like it's a big deal.  I do get a sneeze, here and there, and I also noticed that I get more goosebumps or post acute withdrawal when I am smoking a cigarette, but it obviously isn't bad enough to get me to stop smoking the cigarette.  Iboga is helping with that though cause it's getting hard to finish a complete cigarette in one go, so it's still working in the background, even though I keep trying to undermine it by smoking the awful things.  At least it's still being gentle on me, LOL..

Both times after my successful iboga treatments, cannabis was a major contributing factor in helping me recover, and feel normal much faster.  Quitting weed, only ever makes me sleep a bit less at first, get much more vivid dreams, for a spell, and I am irritable for the first few days.  That is nothing, but alas, I don't have to quit smoking weed, and I pretty much don't want to.  It tastes, and smells wonderful.  I would eat ganja treats for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, pretty much.  I really enjoy everything about the plant, as well as various entheogenic plants, and utilize them in my exploration of inner space, in the ultimate quest for answers that can only be found within.  Right now cannabis and iboga are my allies, and they are getting me through this with ease.

It's really, awfully easy, especially if you have ever tried any other detox, which for me usually lasted at least a week, in inpatient crap, with a bunch of other patients, and set schedules and meetings, where I'd feel pretty shitty, and still have to sit around and interact with others, then I'd get home without the meds they gave me as an inpatient, and I'd feel horrible and go back to using..  Iboga was like going to a 2-4 week inpatient program, staying clean that whole time, getting counseling, and a little angel on my shoulder urging me to do better, all in a session that lasted about 2 days..  And, also, it removed my cravings for the drug, which itself is one of the biggest factors in relapsing.

When I was tapering, and my dose started getting low enough, I wasn't sick, but low enough that I started to feel the same way.  Sick of it all, depressed, no motivation, no energy.  When I was on 60 mgs of MS a day I didn't feel bad but on 30 mgs I did.  When I was on 5-6 pods a day I felt fine, but at 1-2 pods a day I didn't feel so great.  So you are probably getting to your low end of use.  The next step would be to tough it out and find a treatment you are comfortable with, and make plans.  Setting goals gives you something to look forward to, and making a plan can allow you to count the days, which can help provide motivation.

Ideally it would be best to get as low on your dose as possible before going in for iboga treatment, but if you are feeling horrible for weeks before, it might not be so great for your mental stability, and will in fact weaken you before the powerful experience.  Iboga in a proper dose will remove 85%+ of the withdrawal, whether you are on 100 mgs of the drug, or 30, although you might recover a bit quicker from being on a lower dose of opiates before hand.  It's a trade off, but you need to be able to cope daily, until the iboga with your mind and body repair themselves.  So if you are suffering, then use enough to feel okay, but be conscious and try to get as low as you can without feeling horrible.  

There is a big psychological component to opiates, that people often forget, it can help boost mood, but it also numbs you to everything, even yourself.  You will need to learn how to feel again, and during that faze, you may be a bit uncomfortable with the overload of sensations that come back.  Believe me, if you embrace feeling, be it good or bad, you will gain great rewards and appreciation for being sensitive to things again.

There may be some good supplements to take pretreatment or natural holistic herbs, but I am not sure which one's are great.  Some can also be used, post treatment to enhance energy, boost mood, and help sleep.  Exercise, healthy eating, and getting all the vitamins and nutrition your body needs will help it repair itself quicker.  

You've learned a bunch of bad habits over a long period, so NOW it's time to start learning newer healthier habits.  It's time to start doing what you know is good for you, and not using drugs to numb the things you feel bad about.  I think we're all rooting for you!  

I'll keep an eye out for supplements and things that are okay to take before Ibo, mostly like proper hydration, and enough vitamins and minerals, are a good start, but some herbs and supplements will be contraindicated with iboga, so don't take any herbs without checking first.

Hope this helps!

Yeah, sorry if I came off a bit rude.  I got a little upset at the sarcasm, and didn't let myself calm down enough before posting.  I understand what you are trying to say, but I just disagree.  When someone is an addict, they CAN quit, they just don't understand how.  Now I definitely don't forget what it was like being a junky, or crazed drug addict.  I was addicted to opioids for 7 years, before my first iboga treatment.  3.5 of those years I was on methadone.  I flew to Amsterdam to do the iboga, had stepped down from 100 mgs of methadone a day, to 12 mgs, before I jumped on a plane for a 13 hour flight, and had taken my dose early in the morning.  

After my experience I didn't have a real smooth re-entry, tried to use a couple times, but the great feeling it used to give me was different.  It didn't feel that great anymore, and I decided for sure that I was done.  Over the next 5 months, I kicked cigarettes, sweets, soda, and pig for some reason (had to do with one of my visions, I don't think Iboga likes pig  :P).  I was clean after that for 5 years.

I broke my collar bone last year, though, and had to be given pain meds because they couldn't set it, and could only wait and perform surgery, if needed.  So I was on pain pills.  It was costing me money for doc visits, and I got sick of spending all that money for them to look at my bone.  So I found the cheapest source of pain meds I could, by buying poppy pods.  I pretty much used those strictly for pain for the most time.  I did, however, take some extra on several occasions, and boosted my tolerance, caught a buzz.  Figured since I was using em, may as well enjoy em!  I had a pod habit, but I never got out of control, I knew it was temporary, and I again began lowering my dose and planning for Iboga.  

I stepped myself down on pods, and had a friend who gave me morphine since the precise dose in pill form was easier to measure than crushed poppy pods, which could be inconsistent (I didn't experience too many extremes between pods of the same batch, but it could happen).  So anyways, I switched from poppy pods and their numerous alkaloids, to 60 mgs of plain morphine sulfate a day.  Once daily dosing kept me from feeling sick all day, I had normal sleep patterns, and was regular.  I functioned fine, but I was still an addict.  I did need them for much of that time, while the bone slowly built up calcium deposits or whatever, and started making the bone heal.

Had I not been able to get poppies or whatever, I would have likely bought some pills or some kind of opiates somewhere.  I needed them.  But I also knew how to beat em, because after all, if I am strong enough to do it once, I can do it again.  I truly believe I could kick without ibogaine, after having done it.  I only had to make the choice and suffer the consequences of my actions.  When you are TRULY sick enough of it, there isn't a lot you won't put up with to get away.  Hell I am getting older, it's not so easy to snap back into shape, but I also see a much bigger picture than my immediate feelings.  I know that this too shall pass, and would need to take it long, slow, and extremely hard.  I do believe I could do it.  

The thing is, why should I not remove the withdrawal as much as possible and get through it easier, and much faster?  Well, that's where iboga comes in.  And it does it on so many levels.  First, you immediately see that you aren't violently ill, when you should be.  Then you start to see a mental picture of your mind state.  Often people can get literal information on what got them started using.  Like what you see on celebrity rehab, after hours and hours, and days, and often months of strict counseling.  Iboga can unlock that in your own language, in one evening.  It gets at the roots of your problem, and shows you how to fix it.  Then it removes lots of your previously addictive desires, cravings, etc.  You feel like you want to be healthy, you want to be happy, and like starting an exercise routine, it hurts at first.  You gotta stick with it for a few weeks, and in a month or two you'll feel those endorphins pumping.  Like the high people get from a regular workout routine.  It feels wonderful, and you feel powerful.  You might have heard of what some call the "Ibo Glow", that people can have after a treatment.  This IS IT!  (note, your mileage may vary.)  

Some people don't have that experience at all, and just have insane visions that they don't understand and vomit a bunch, and just come out of the trip frazzled and weak, and they say, "Screw this shit, I am getting my meds back!"  Those people are not, and were not, ready to quit to begin with.  So more importantly than the ibogaine, which is IMO THE BEST addiction treatment medicine there is in the world, is the true desire and will of the person who wants to quit.  Everything else is an excuse.  IMO, "Excuses are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all STINK!"  The reason an addict can't get clean is because they have convinced themselves of the excuses they use not to quit.  

Anyone who has been an addict knows about denial, and can convince themselves and others of just about anything to continue to stay high.  This may be a mental illness, but it's curable.  Some have to hit the very bottom, and some die before they get there.  The power comes when that person is so sick of the life they have that they will go through almost anything to get out from under it.  And luckily, some of those people found ibogaine, and they are truly successful, and can do so much easier than any other method.  That doesn't change the fact that a 30 year + heroin and opiate addict, never goes and just says fuck it and goes through straight up, cold turkey detox, and they never return.  Sure that is an extreme case, but I saw that happen.  When you've had enough, nothing will deter you from your goal.  Look at old Ray Charles, that's what he did.

Anyways, again I apologize if I got a little less than tactful, but I really do enjoy this debate.  I think we could be pretty good friends, but we'd have to agree to disagree on a few things.  I think that is a healthy part of any human interaction.  I do hope you see my point, though!

Respect and love!

BTW, I am on day 16 of being free from morphine sulfate (30 mgs a day).  I am feeling pretty much back to normal, but have taken about 200-300 mgs of iboga alkaloids once a week, since my treatment.  Helps a lots with post acute withdrawal, as my endorphins start to work on their own again..

General Discussion / Re: LSD, Kykeon and Manna
« on: March 17, 2010, 10:12:19 PM »
I have very little experience with LSA.  Although I have found that cold water extracts are easier to take than seeds.  Also, soaking the seeds in an alcohol with a high acetaldehyde content can convert the LSA to LSH which is supposed to be even more active.  I haven't gotten to give it a try, but supposedly soaking the seeds in sherry (high acetaldehyde content) then ingesting can give much more trippy, pleasant effects.  Man made or not, I think LSD is just as relevant as mushrooms or cactus. 

I have some weird, strange theories about LSD, but I think it came as a tool for mankind.  Man was embracing science and chemistry during a crucial point in time.  The world was on the verge of destruction with nuclear weapons, and yet Albert Hofmann discovers something that sought to undermine the war machines.  It might be a gift from God, or a present from an alien race, who have vested interest in our success at life and consciousness.  Regardless, I hold LSD in as high a regard as the plant teachers I am so fond of..

I would prefer my children don't get involved with addictive drugs, but I believe they should have the right to use whatever they choose.  I will leave your thread, it's obvious that we will never agree.  

I don't understand how you can make a rule for two specific drugs that you feel are horrible, because of your experience, while the same can be said for nearly any drug, depending on the person using it.  The reason we can't use ibogaine today, is because people like you took it upon themselves to decide what was okay for me and my family, which pisses me off to high heaven.  

Who the heck are you or anyone else to decide what my family can or can't ingest?  It's made me extremely angry that anyone thinks they know better than I do about something, when they seek to limit my experience, which is exactly what you are trying to do with prohibition of certain drugs.  

Gee, mister government man says it's bad for me, and I shouldn't do it, so I guess I can't.  Well screw that, and shame to anyone who seeks to control my use of any drug I choose!  It's my body, my choice to make about what I put in it, and my consequences to deal with should I make a poor choice or lose control.

Anyone who refuses to take that responsibility is a child and should be treated as one.  I, however, am a grown, intelligent adult capable of making my own decisions. Anyone who tries to control my decisions is no friend of mine.  Prohibition didn't work for alcohol, and doesn't work for drugs.  Our prisons get fuller, killers and rapists, and violent offenders go free, while people who use drugs get to sit and rot.  

Please do show me where harsher penalties have prevented anyone from doing anything!  America has been getting extremely hard on crack, heroin, and meth dealers, has it had any effect in availability?  You want quality control?  You want regulation?  You can't control organized crime.  When one is removed two more pop up in his place.  People will never stop dealing drugs with the current drug policy in place, because a black market drives prices up and drives safety precautions and regulation down.  Who the hell wouldn't want to make loads of easy money?  

If it were treated the same as alcohol, we'd still have addicts, but they would be the same as an alcoholic, or a cigarette addict.  The shady dealings of unscrupulous dealers could be effectively eliminated, if you could walk into the pharmacy and ask the pharmacist for your drug of choice.  Sure some people wouldn't be able to handle it, but there would be quality control, better information, more education, and taxes could help pay for addiction treatment.  ibogaine could be purchased from your pharmacist or doctor, and you could receive the treatment you deserve.  

Some relevant quotes:

“Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes crimes out of things that are not crimes.”  Abe Lincoln.

“For every prohibition you create you also create an underground.”  Jello Biafra

Come on, Im talking about selling Drugs that lead to destruction, Tobacco, is a Drug, and that isnt destuctive, yes it can shorten ones lifespan, and cause illnesses, so does alcohol, but they are not destuctive are they, and that is my point, and its Legal, Y? cos they are not destructive!!
Alcohol and tobacco are not destructive?  People destroy their lives with addiction to alcohol every day.  People lose control on alcohol, just as they do with heroin.  You do know heroin and cocaine withdrawal can't kill you, unless other medical problems are there?  Alcohol and benzo withdrawal can and will kill you.  

You think because some retards in our government say it's okay, it is?  I suppose people who prefer prohibition are too fearful of taking responsibility for their own choices.  You say that the drug dealer knows they are going to turn people into addicts and ruin their lives, but the drug user doesn't know.  Well who's responsibility is it to teach the drug user?  Who taught the dealer?  

I think you are portraying drug users as victims, rather than giving them the same criteria you are holding the drug dealers accountable for.  If you don't know what the drug will do to you, and it's possible outcomes, then you choose to do it anyways, or choose to think you can control it, WELL WHO'S FAULT IS THAT??  I am honestly pissed that the government can so easily brainwash people into thinking that drugs are the cause of their problems, when in fact it's the choices you make with that drug that cause whatever consequences that you have to deal with.

So is it okay to deal cannabis, since you don't think it causes destruction?  I know people have made their lives completely unmanageable with weed.  Do you think it's okay to sell alcohol, when people might take a drink and drive into a bus load of children?  

Introductions / Re: you were recomended to me
« on: March 17, 2010, 08:10:30 PM »
Yeah, I guess if you can afford to at least get the ibogaine HCl or TA extract, we might be able to help you get through it.  Ideally we want everyone to seek out treatment with experienced providers, for their safety and ours.  However, in all practicality, I try to share all the info I have learned with the masses in hopes that some may be able to handle it themselves.  I am one who has, and can.  I say if your determined enough, and are willing to do what it takes, then you can definitely have success, treating yourself.  Keep us updated on how things progress, and if you have any specific questions, then feel free to ask away.  And I would personally vouch for Sara, who is one of the first treatment providers for ibogaine ever.  She is truly a saint in my eyes.  Best of luck!

Also, I am not in denial, but I think it might be you denying that your drug problem is your fault.  Placing blame on people you asked for drugs.  That is denial, and lack of personal responsibility. 

We have to deal with regulations of this medicine, just like heroin, cocaine, or methamphetamine.  You do know there are a whole slew of addictive opiates used as medicine, and they work great?  Methamphetamine is a prescription drug as well.  Ibogaine is schedule I (possibly to be schedule II in light of some info from Dana Beal), which falls in the same category as cannabis, heroin, and cocaine. 

Someone obviously feels ibogaine is dangerous and has no medical value, the same way you feel about heroin or cocaine.  Now I have to put up with that bullshit ruling because some idiot couldn't take personal responsibility for their actions..

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