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Messages - GratefulDad

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1306
Since I have no T. iboga with which to experiment, I am planning on making a mixed alkaloid extract of Voacanga africana root bark.  There are some questions I am hoping can be answered by the collective experience of this Forum.  Since the major alkaloid, voacangine, is very similar to ibogaine, it is likely that the results obtained will be similar to those of T. iboga.

1)  Does anyone have any experience or information re:  the fumarate salt of voacangine (or ibogaine)?  I am planning on extracting the Voacanga alkaloids with acetone and precipitating the fumarate salts by adding a solution of fumaric acid dissolved in acetone.  This method has been used with success with DMT, and I am hoping that it works as well with voacangine/ibogaine.

2)  Has anyone used either voacangine fumarate or ibogaine fumarate?  If so, were the subjective effects (pharmacodynamics) similar to other salts (e.g. hydrochloride or acetate) or the freebase?

3)  I have yet to find any information on the use of a V. africana root bark extract on the web, most experiences reported are for the seeds.  Any information will be appreciated.

After making the effort to obtain a V. africana extract, I am considering a bioassay.  Since it will be helpful in documenting the procedure and effects if I survive the experiment  ;) , I will start out with a low dose.  (The LD50 (i.v.) in mice is 54 mg/kg, somewhat higher than ibogaine at 42 mg/kg.)

4)  What would constitute a threshold dose of voacangine?

5)  Since I do not expect an answer to the above question, what is a threshold dose of ibogaine HCl?

If the extraction procedure is effective, it has several benefits:  Quick, simple, no extremely toxic chems, relatively safe (acetone is flammable, but no heat will be used), and the result should be very pure.  The only downside is that fumaric acid is not widely available, though it can be purchased for low cost over the web.

I will be cross-posting this to the mindvox list in hopes that its wider audience contains someone with answers to my questions.  If this experiment works, I will be expecting donations of T. iboga root bark with which to continue this vital, groundbreaking research (har har yeah yeah I know:  in my dreams.   :D ).

BTW Igor says "Hi"  --  I might just let him be the first to experience voacangine fumarate (if he begs sincerely and long enough).

Yer Pal, Eon
I haven't played around with voacanga extract other than some that was extracted for me by one of the guys at ethnogarden 6 years or so ago.  However, I have extracted freebase ibogaine and can make a very pure total alkaloid extract. 

I can take the iboga bark and purify it to a very pure TA, or even take it further to 98% pure ibogaine HCl.  I have spoken extensively with Chris Jenks, the guy who posted how to extract and purify the ibogaine HCl from the bark, and have posted a much simpler step by step extraction in another thread, here: http://eboka.pkeffect.com/index.php?topic=7.msg534#msg534

If this is of any interest, let me know, and I can try and make any unclear parts easier to understand, if anyone needs any help.  Sorry if this strays off topic a bit, but I figured since you were working with voacangine as a possible route to ibogaine or something, then this might be somewhat relevant in how the iboga alkaloids react.

1307
Well, I am a registered member, but I can see your post fine.  Perhaps asking Calaquendi to form a private forum here for discussing the chemistry of ibogaine, would be a good addition, and only certain members in good standing in this community would be allowed. 

I'll try and catch him when I can and discuss it with him.  Then, for very important chemistry or teks to be posted for the public, we could make them posted as anonymous, or just keep them private due to each users request.  This may allow this forum to grow well, and draw in a bigger crowd for iboga help, but still provide a more private area for those of us with a bit more experience who can perfect the knowledge of these things among ourselves before sharing it with the rest of the world. 

Just an idea, but I'd like to hear others opinions on the matter.  Maybe start a new thread?  Feel free to move this as needed, mods! 

GD

1308
Haha! Thanks Nobunoni, but when you say I have done no work on myself, I would beg to differ. ;)  Even the low dose of iboga I had taken has indeed helped me work on myself more than just battling my opiate addiction.  It has shown me a lot more than I had wished to use it for, even though only got so much on board. 

Instead of taking the occasional boost during my maintenance (opiate maintenance), on "rough" days, I have instead reduced my dose of 20g of pod powder a day, down to my last day, two days ago, of only 8.4 g.  On top of that I have switched to an even shorter acting, easier to measure dose of morphine sulfate.  And rather than the 10% morphine alkaloid profile of the pods, or roughly 80 mgs of morphine, plus codeine and other poppy alkaloids (of unknown %'s), I have narrowed it down to 45-60 mgs of morphine sulfate only, per day.  I am currently reducing that morphine dose daily, and am trying to get down to 15, maybe 30 mgs of morphine per day, then will undergo a treatment again. 

My sitter has started back to work, and caring for a family of five has taken priority to my detox, as I need to be sure they are all cared for before I take another 3 day journey.  But in the meantime, my mind is preparing, my body is preparing, and I am already beginning to develop a better routine and better outlook for a clean healthy life.  Thanks, though, Nobunoni, and Calaquendi, and all the rest of you who are watching and caring about my well being.  I love you all and bless you all!!

Respectfully,

GD

1309
The Extraction:

What you need: Plain white distilled vinegar, a stainless steel, ceramic, HDPE, or non-reactive container, janitorial strength (10%) non-sudsy ammonia, distilled water, a funnel, coffee filters, old t-shirt, and the iboga bark.

Optional for added purity: Acetone, muriatic acid (28-31% HCl), and Everclear  (95% pure ethanol).

1: Take the bark, and make sure it's as fine of a powder as possible.

2: Add enough vinegar to thoroughly cover the bark. A good measurement for the vinegar is about 5 times the amount (volume) of vinegar to the weight of bark.

In this instance 40g of bark times 5 would be about 200 mls of vinegar per soak. One may need slightly more in the first couple extractions to thoroughly cover the bark, and excess can be used safely, however it will lengthen the time of filtering later, so try and keep the volumes minimal.

3: The bark can be stirred occasionally, and left to sit for at least one hour.

Adding heat makes the bark harder to filter, and isn't necessary.

4: After an hour has passed, one needs to filter the bark from the vinegar with a cloth t-shirt. Squeeze out the bark to gather all the vinegar and save this. The bark is then returned to the container for another soak. This should be done 4 times to be sure to get out all the alkaloids.

5: While letting the bark soak again, as in the previous steps, Filter the collected vinegar through coffee filters.

This can take a long time to filter, since the coffee filters clog easily, and may need to be replaced often. Have patience though. If you can leave it sitting in the funnel, with a filter, the juice will eventually pass through. This filtering isn't 100% necessary but it will remove all the fine plant particles from the solution, so the initial extraction will come out much cleaner, so it's a good idea.

6: Once all the vinegar has been collected and filtered through a coffee filter, you have two options.

The first would be to evaporate the vinegar a bit, by using low heat and a fan. Under boiling is fine to reduce the vinegar, and will make it easier to deal with less liquid. You don't want to evaporate it to thickness though, just enough to make it easy to work with in a smaller container. The second option is to skip the evaporation and proceed directly to the next step.

7: Once you have all your vinegar collected, and evaporated a good bit, if you like, you are ready to add the ammonia. You can slowly pour ammonia into the vinegar, to make it basic. pH  papers aren't needed, but if used, just make sure the pH  is above 9-10.

As you add the ammonia, the solution will heat slightly, and you will see cloudy precipitate forming. You can add more ammonia, to be sure, as too much won't hurt, it will just add to the amount of solution that needs to be filtered, which can take awhile.

8: Now, if left to settle, the precipitate (freebase total alkaloids) will sink to the bottom of the container. The majority of the clear solution at the top can be siphoned off, and filtered to be sure no precipitate is in it.

If it looks clear, not cloudy, though, all the precipitate should have sunken to the bottom. By removing a large portion of the upper clear (tea color) water, this will allow you to have much less solution to filter out your alkaloids. You can save everything you siphoned off and add more ammonia later, to be sure you got out all the freebase alkaloids.

9: Now you can filter the muddy solution through coffee filters again.

Filtering this can take a good bit as the precipitate begins to clog the filter, but again, be patient, as the solution will eventually pass through the filter completely. This may take overnight, so don't worry if it takes a long time. Once you have filtered the solution, you can set aside the clear tea colored water for later, to add more ammonia, and be sure you collected all the precipitate.

10: You should now have a coffee filter with all the brown freebase precipitate stuck to it. You should then add a liberal amount of distilled water to the filter in the funnel. You will thoroughly rinse the precipitate with the distilled water to wash away any extra impurities.

Again, waiting for the water to pass through the alkaloid coated coffee filter may take awhile, so just have patience.

11: This precipitate can then be placed in front of a fan with a warm air current, away from UV light, and left to dry.

This is now your crude freebase total alkaloid extract. This can be capped when dry and used as is, and should be much cleaner than the simple vinegar extraction. However, for those of us that want it much more pure, there are two options.

First option:

1: Take the filter with the dried crusty precipitate and break up the filtrate to a fine powder. You can use the same filter, or take a new one and place it in a funnel that is plugged (SWIM  uses a two liter bottle with the bottom cut off for a funnel, so capping the opening can seal it, but a finger may be used). Add the filtrate to the plugged funnel then add vinegar.

2: Let the vinegar sit, maybe stir it around a bit in the filter, then let it drain through, and save the vinegar.

3: You can repeat with fresh vinegar another time, and collect all the vinegar.

4: Add ammonia to the vinegar again, to precipitate the alkaloids, which should be even cleaner this time.

5: Re-filter out all the alkaloids, and rinse with plain cold distilled water, then allow to dry completely in front of a fan.

This can now be used as is and should be even cleaner.


Second (more involved) option:

Okay so you have your brown precipitate in your coffee filter, now dried up, from the first portion of the extraction.

1: You now, take your acetone, and soak the filter with it. You can stir around the precipitate in the filter, and wash two or three times with acetone. The filter should contain any bark crud that got through, and any other impurities.

This will remove the alkaloids from the solid filtrate, since the freebase is soluble in acetone.

2: Take your muriatic acid, and add it very slowly, to the acetone. You must do this dropwise, and watch as the precipitate forms.

Adding too much can start to redissolve the ibogaine. You can add a few drops at a time, and watch as the precipitate forms. When it stops forming, you can place this into the fridge, to chill for a few hours, before filtering, and this will increase the yield. You can add more acid a second time to the acetone after filtering the first precipitate to be sure you got it all.

3: Filter out the ibogaine HCl.

This is nearly pure ibogaine HCl, but there may be a bit left in the acetone, and all the other alkaloids will also be in the acetone. You can evaporate some of the acetone with a fan and low heat, then treat it with the muriatic acid again, and harvest any more crystals of ibogaine HCl that precipitate. Filter it out as well and add it to the first filtrate.

4: If you would like pure ibogaine HCl, without the other alkaloids, you can take the ibogaine HCl crystals, and dissolve it in boiling ethanol.

The boiling ethanol should be added dropwise, just until all the ibogaine HCl has dissolved.

5: This ethanol solution is then left to cool in the fridge and the ibogaine will recrystallize.

This will make the ibogaine HCl form much more pure crystals and can remove some of the ibogamine/ibogaline if still present in the precipitate. It is not necessary unless going for 98%+ purity, and repeated recrystallizations can yield very pure ibogaine HCl, but can cost a bit of yield.

When this is dry, it is ready to take.

6: For those who want to recover all the alkaloids, so they can take a complete total alkaloid extract of high purity, they should take the acetone that they salted out the ibogaine HCl, and evaporate it in front of a fan with warm air current.

The resulting leftover alkaloids will be an unstable oil.

7: Dissolve this oil in distilled water.

8: Add ammonia to this water with the oil dissolved into it.

You will again see the freebase residual alkaloids precipitate out of the water/ammonia solution.

9: Filter out the freebase alkaloids, and rinse again thoroughly with distilled water.

10: Let the freebase residual alkaloids dry completely.

You can then add your freebase residual alkaloids to your ibogaine HCl, and capsulize it. Freebases will be converted to the HCl salts in your stomach, so turning them into the HCl salt before ingesting is unnecessary.


So there you have it folks. If you want a very pure extract in which you only need to take a gram or two of extract, versus 7-8 g of brown gunk, then this is how to do it! The purity should help eliminate some of the nausea and should also be absorbed very quickly by the system.


EDIT:  If anyone has an excess of bark and a good camera, I could perform this extraction again, photographing each step.  I am one to prefer all the alkaloids in the TA, however, purifying all the alkaloids to utmost purity before taking them, would be highly desired, as the plant material makes it much harder to be sure exactly what the dose one takes is.  Removing the other alkaloids and making pure ibogaine HCl is possible using this tek, but also seems to be wasteful of all the other synergistic alkaloids that help present the plant in it's full "spirit" form, I believe.  This is only my esoteric opinion, though, and I have no scientific proof that the added alkaloids give more of the "plant spirit", when looking from a purely scientific standpoint.

1310
Introductions / Re: Saying Hello!
« on: January 19, 2010, 06:37:47 PM »
Thanks for the warm welcome guys!

1311
Eboka Journals / Re: the strangest magic ever .
« on: January 19, 2010, 06:37:18 PM »
Thanks a bunch, I'll have to make room on the computer, and check it all out. 

1312
Eboka Journals / Re: the strangest magic ever .
« on: January 19, 2010, 05:02:14 PM »
I was wondering where I can find actual Bwiti music, for my next experience?  Have any links or available downloads that would be good?

1313
Introductions / Saying Hello!
« on: January 19, 2010, 03:13:06 PM »
Hello everyone, I am new here, but Calaquendi is a friend, and I have a bit of experience with iboga.  I kicked a heroin/oxy to methadone habit in 04 with iboga, but broke my collar bone and am now healed as well as I can be, and fighting an addiction to pods.  I will be doing iboga again, soon, and will pop in here as often as possible to help out, and share my experiences.  Hello Eboka Forum!

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