Author Topic: A Chronology for Survival:  (Read 5438 times)

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Offline Calaquendi

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A Chronology for Survival:
« on: September 27, 2009, 03:13:04 PM »
My friends ~

Here follows the notes on my recent 'session' with TA iboga...we considered this a 'broken play' to use sports terminology. This is where things go differently than planned, yet you still achieve some results from the situation:

WED 9.16.09 ~ ppd TA extract using acetic acid tek

THURS 9.17.09 ~ This was to be my brother's second session within months to attenuate withdrawal and 'get back on course' However the following problems occurred before we planned on dosing:

Brother has stage 2 hypertension and is medicated for this, recently his Rx was changed due to uncomfortable side effects from his last script. Our first mistake was improper/insufficient monitoring of BP in the days immediately preceding planned treatment.

7:30pm - checked BP- absolutely too high I have recorded 148/94, but this was after an unrecorded reading of nearly 160/100...keep in mind he'd taken his medication earlier and it should've been far more manageable.

8:30pm - decided to give him another dose of his Coreg (BP) this would've been his second dose of the day, our intention was to get BP down to a manageable level so we felt safe with treating him...probably not a good idea in retrospect...{i shouldve skipped 2nd dose of Coreg opt for low dose xanax}

10:30pm - BP 142/92 this was getting to be satisfactory but now I was afraid he would bottom out, as he'd taken some xanax in addition to his Coreg...this to mitigate the acute WD and maintain BP. This protocol worked on our last endeavor but I had a bad feeling about trying to flood the guy...he was in deeper WD this time and had been so for hours...no doubt this attributed to his spikes in blood pressure, but my fear was he had too much medication on board now, and as soon as he was flooded the attenuation of WD symptoms would bring his BP even lower still, presumably and potentially causing a sever drop in BP - I wasn't going to risk an emergency.

11:15pm - decided to give 'test dose' and closely monitor him. 1.1g TA was given now, as his BP had fallen to 118/80 so we felt safe giving a small test dose. He went to lay down and we'd check in an hour...

12:30am - BP 120/82...seemed perfect to initiate flood, but something didn't feel right, the energy around us wasn't 'completely' conducive to carrying out our plans. i know this is vague, but here is where intuition and experience converge. Better to listen to my instincts and err on the side of caution, while things PROBABLY would've been OK, this was a new and different HT Rx with different properties, and as I said, in the preceding days not enough care was taken to monitor this satisfactorily. I didn't feel safe...

He fell asleep around this time and i woke him once to check his BP and look at his physical condition. although all appeared fine, I decided against a flood dose here...there would always be another time...no need to make a hasty mistake.

Doubtless some of his higher BP was due to the fact he was in deeper WD this time, but until I have more data on his current medication, and more comprehensive pre session 'clinical' notes ie consistent BP charts, etc theres no way in hell i'd risk it...

Now comes another rushed decision:

Even though I'd planned on doing a session too, this was to be the following week, after brother's legs were under him so to speak. But since he didn't flood (and was actually feeling fine) the next day...we decided I would take the medicine we had prepared for him. Important to note here that we believe that even the small dose he received mitigated his WD and after a good night's rest and some benzo's the next day he felt 'fine'...not to mention he did't wish to flood given the circumstances. So far he is doing ok...

9.18.09 FRI ~
9:30pm  - I took 1mg xanax...I was anxious and wanted to calm down and focus some.

9:50pm - having some root-bark on hand in addition to the TA we made,I wanted to 'pay my respects' to Bwiti and engage the spirit in a pure sense. So to begin I took a small 3g dose of powdered bark mixed in honey. Yes it was gross...

11:15pm-took 4g TA extract and laid down..I was feeling only minimal effects from the 3g bark, and it's important to note here some other 'mistakes'...the set and setting were nor entiely devoted to MY experience. There was other activity in the house, spreading energies out that should've been focused on the situation at hand. There were 'sitters' but there were preoccupations with other projects also. I knew better but did this anyway, no doubt this is the reason for the difference in experience.

1:00am took remaining 4g TA and laid down...unfolded much more slowly than my previous efforts with this medicine, but eventually visuals built and somatic symptoms were evident. In total darkness i began to see images of humans in silhouette and saw what I thought was the 'face of Bwiti - a human-like face carved in wood or stone hovering above me, just looking down. Also I began to hear beautiful drumming and chanting, oscillating between male and female african chants, gorgeous music that doubtless was meant to 'move' me...but here is where things got different : the entire time I was "under" I felt extremely emotionally detached, i felt the immense void of what I expected to be 'there' and intuitively knew it was from the rush of this session, lack of mental preparation and the scattered energies of the sitters...all these things saturated me with feelings of shame and regret, I was embarrassed and regretful that I had not shown myself or Bwiti the proper respect, that I knew better than to go about things in this way but did so anyway...

Fast forward to the following days - here is where I quit taking notes...i found myself adrift in post-session wobbly ataxia and emotional no man's land. I 'felt' something underneath...that 'something' I'd expected and hoped to break/attain during the acute phase of the trip...this time slowly spreading itself out over days and days. The build up of raw and ugly emotion was making me physically ill...I could sense it rising ever so slowly but I could not 'force' myself to cry, or to vent in any way. This had to happen on it's own, and I wasn't sure it would or even if i could handle it if it did...

The weather was extraordinarily fucked...it rained biblically and finally I broke...I just broke down. I felt rage and fear and sorrow wash over me in a torrent that I could never have seen coming, it scared me to death, i thought about suicide...I didn't realize at the time that this was the way my experience was unfolding, that i 'asked for it' thus...I just thought I finally lost my mind for good. God it hurt...

For several days I was in and out of this, although after the initial 'deluge' the waves of emotion were less and less intense, allowing for some introspection to sneak in...friends, when you know better than to do something, may I recommend NOT like, doing it?

I could've and should've waited...there was no reason other than my impatience for me go about this with such a cavalier attitude. Yes,  ' I know what I'm doing"...is it not evident??? Jesus...

As of this writing it's been perhaps ten days and I am waking up to myself again with hard earned lessons under my belt. I'm not even sure if i will be satisfied with this report as it only really outlines what happened and how, but if I didn't put something down NOW...I may not have gotten started at all...now that this forum is getting started we can have the tools to more easily discuss and work out these things. All I can say is how grateful I am to you all, the friends I'm making through these endeavors and even the mistakes are precious...I love you people and welcome responses...criticisms, etc...forgive any typos, I'm not going there today man.If this is to be posted at all right now, it has to be as-is, I'm sure you understand.

Thanks for lending your ears and god bless you...Cal
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline MR T

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Re: A Chronology for Survival:
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2009, 06:20:15 PM »
WOW thanks for the report Cal. It sounded very intense-I know I really can t relate having not taken iboga, yet, but I have had a somewhat similuar exp over the years. I know that feeling of being emotional devoid after a ''intense'' expierence. If do to many ''research'' ;) expirements without a couple week break, I to begin to have anxieties ,worse, than before the expirience. It defintley relates to others around you and thier ''anxieties''. You are right, set and setting is the utmost of importance,sadly I learned this lesson the hard way too :o It seems like we turn into magnets absorbing all energy around us---good or bad-- when under something magical.(in my opinion)BUT what don t kill you you only makes you 10x stronger.
                                       Love you,man please don t change- 
Happiness is rooted in misery.
Misery lurks beneath happiness,
who knows what the future holds.
LaoTsu-

Offline x

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Re: A Chronology for Survival:
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2009, 06:41:01 PM »
There's so much warmth I have to extend to you, Calman.
Shame and regret are themes, I notice, in more than just this experience.
I am SO glad you were able to get the emotions up, that you found a way to allow it. It's been suggested that 'therapies' which involve, um, expressive emotion? are very, very good after Ibo. You know, like rolfing, primal scream, those that get stuff out. If you don't have a therapist like that, sometimes just yelling will get it started, the crying, the release. Talk to me more if you like about this, but I think you get the gist.
A lady I was honored to sit with took her dose on Friday night, and is still tired and weak today. What day did you start to come out of it?
Tell me how brother is doing. BP stable on new med yet?

You learned from your experience, and are still learning. That's a big part of what it's all about.

Tia.

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: A Chronology for Survival:
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2009, 06:56:33 PM »
Thanks to both of you for the replies...I love y'all too.

Brother is doing better now, his BP more manageable, in retrospect these were simple mistakes; we are both medically trained (he more so than I am) and know enough about this to NOT make those mistakes...and yet...

But knowing when to call it quits is a virtue in my eyes, no need for an emergency and there are risks associated with this medicine as we all know. I've learned and am still learning alot, let's keep going shall we?

~C

ps>Tia - I took it Friday and freaked out like Sunday or Monday...when I say 'freaked out' I don't mean under the direct influence of the medicine, this was a cumulative process that I'm still working out. Typically it can be days, or close on a week before someone is eating and sleeping "normally", but this is also dose-dependent and concerning the level of depth and length of the 'trip' proper...love
« Last Edit: September 28, 2009, 07:00:02 PM by calaquendi »
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Nganga Nobunoni

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Re: A Chronology for Survival:
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2010, 04:10:36 AM »
Warning!!

No take beta-1, beta-2, and alpha-receptors blockers with Iboga alks' it be a sure way to heart failure'

I no have a complete picture of what was going on here' but you should have used Iboga root bark to drop his blood pressure'

Anxiety and withdrawal shall stick the blood pressure 150/95' (higher most times) this is fine' administer a couple of grams of root bark' the blood pressure shall fall as the alks secondary bind to opiate receptors'

You felt out of sorts here cos you no knew of what you where doing bro!

As long as blood pressure is no through the roof' administer a test dose protocol' then wait 3-6 hours before proceeding'


Only once have I seen someones blood pressure rise to an uncomfortable level after a flood dose' and this was because of alcohol abuse'
The client needs to be kept COOL' strip off all them covers and get em shivering' this will drop the blood pressure pretty quickly'

It is unadvisable to allow folks to get hot on Iboga alks' this sis of why blood pressure sometimes rises'

Keep em cool and alive and no add anything else to Iboga alks' esspecialy beta blockers'

Xanax can be introduced at the 72 hour mark to aid in some sleep'
I have never introduced anything before Iboga alks' it is no nessesary'

Drop blood pressure by cooling the person down' strip the bed and open the window' get em cooled down fast' sponge down with wet towels' leave em cold and alive!

Blessings

Nobu +

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: A Chronology for Survival:
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2010, 01:05:53 PM »
Thanks Nobu - great post man. I was always told that if a person with hypertension was stabalized by their RX that it would not be dangerous to take ibo concomitantly? I will look further in to this for sure. i know wd raise BP significantly but he has high pressure regardless. This is interesting. Thanks for your support brother.
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Nganga Nobunoni

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Re: A Chronology for Survival:
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2010, 02:35:09 PM »
Traditionaly you are left out in the cold' laying on a matt on the floor with no blankets'
Nganga keep the initiate cold so as to no tax the liver and heart'

As to medications for blood pressure' it is all down to of what receptors these substances bind to'

Beta blockers are a no go!

You can drop BP 40/40 flat if you add Iboga to beta blockers!!

To add here' we need to get a handle on of what dose of Iboga alks folks are taking'

An acetic acid extraction is NO TA(total alkaloid) it is an extract'

1 gram TA would have 960mg of Total alkaloids in it' a test dose of which would be 400mg' (roughly 6 grams of Iboga root bark)

Your test dose was 1.1 grams extract of which is way under the test dose for Ibogaine hcl or TA'

You should of lowered his blood pressure from W/D with Iboga root bark'

I just checked the average for BP in withdrawal' it is roughly 160/95' after the Iboga alks secondary bind to opiate receptors' BP drops to 120/80' or less' this seems to be normal in W/D' so I can no see of why a beta-blocker or xanax was introduced at all'

There is always a cause for high BP' just taking BP meds is bad management as it no addresses the root of the blood pressure problem'

If you have high BP' outside of normal W/D BP or high BP whilst stable on opiates' then this issue needs adressing before attempting initiation and BP meds are no the way to address such a state'

Diet' exorcise' and possibly accupunture is a way better bet at alleiviating BP problems'

Why does he suffer high BP' would be my question'


Blessings and Light

Nobu +

Nganga Nobunoni

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Re: A Chronology for Survival:
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2010, 02:39:04 PM »
P.S. extract using acetic acid tek'

Ok' of how much woods did you start with and of what did you get back after extraction ? then we can get an idea of what a test dose of this extract is'

Everyone is doing well now' ???

The BP problem has been explored and dealt with without meds ?

Bliss!

Nobu +

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: A Chronology for Survival:
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2010, 02:40:41 AM »
Yo Nobu!

I'd love to hear why an acetic acid extract isn't a total alkaloid? It's a crude one to be sure, but it absolutely contains the full spectrum of chemicals present in the plant. It's more like a 'reduction' than than a TA extract insofar as there is still plant material etc in the acetic acid version  - so if this is what you mean by that I concur that it is not a 'pure TA'. But it gets the job done and beats eating 30g of bark. We started with 30g bark at 5% alk content. This would mean that the 12g or so of extract we pulled from the rootbark would not contain more than 1.5g PURE TA spectrum. (30g x.05=1.5) This is right on. 100kg guy, 15mg/kg...30g bark (5%). There was little loss in this acetic acid tek like I said it's the next best thing to eating the raw rootbark but it's far easier to consume. I don't have my notes here right nw but I will locate the exact info to post later. Thanks for the replies Nobu- my brother's BP is getting better these days- he's been under a lot of stress and wants to eventually quit having to take RX's for it..it's late and I'm sleepy more later. Peace bro!
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Nganga Nobunoni

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Re: A Chronology for Survival:
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2010, 01:16:55 PM »
Hiya bro'

Acetic acid extract is great'
My point is on dosage'

30 grams devided by 12 = 2.5 grams per gram' or 2.5 to 1'

It is no purified TA by weight' of which contains 960mg/gram purified total alkaloids' or 96% pure total alkaloids' = 16 grams Iboga root bark' at 60mg per gram'

Acetic acid extraction has untold rubbish in it adding to weight of stuff that does no thing'

Test dose for someone of 100 kilo would be 250mg of Ibogaine hcl or combined alkaloids' he is a big lad for sure!

At 5% alks that is 5 grams Iboga rootbark' this would almost kill withdrawal' but no toucgh someone of 100 kilo' and also lower blood pressure slightly for the initial flood'

Anyways' simantics'

I am guessing but your total all in was quite out on alkaloids' you used quality woods' no comercial dark Iboga'
Your woods of which would be 6% total alks per gram'
That is 30x60= 1800mg' of which in my recogning would be closer to a dose to give someone weighing 100 kilo for addiction' 18mg/kg'
Ibogaine is fat soluble' so the bigger the person' the bigger the dose per kg body weight'

Awesomely good stuff though bro'

The main thing is it worked!

 4-5% alks' you would have to eat shit loads :)))

If you wish to know the strenght of your woods' eat it' if it is visual eyes closed' then it is good wood'

Low alkaloid woods are hard to get a viual experience off' cos the alks no flood the brain fast enough'

Test dose of 3-6 grams Iboga rootbark as purifired total alks' no many feel anything within 3 hours plus' good to keep going'

Ibogaine is visual at roughly 250mg' so this si of what to judge a dose on' and how big you are' what the habit is'
they feel no thing' they relax and all the twitches come out :)))

Blessings and Light

Nobu +

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: A Chronology for Survival:
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2010, 07:31:24 PM »
Great summary my friend!
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Nganga Nobunoni

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Re: A Chronology for Survival:
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2010, 09:23:47 PM »
A Chronology for Survival :)))

Cool stuff Cal' Power to you bro!

Be Well!

Nobu +

Offline x

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Re: A Chronology for Survival:
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2010, 05:00:04 PM »
Just a couple notes on a good thread. It's my direct experience and is also written in Lotsof's protocol that 300mg ibogaine is an amount that leaves one clear and lucid. I'm #165, I took that much last night to aid in sitting with a wonderful man in opiate detox. No visuals.
None for my cofacilitator, either. This was TA, but i've done the same with 85%, 95% and 99% ibogaine.

Also, something interesting I've noticed is that after test, after flood, the bp will rise while the person approaches 'going visual'. This can even happen up to three hours after test. Just my experience, for what it's worth.

Best to your bro, Calman.


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Re: A Chronology for Survival:
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2010, 06:11:51 PM »
Nice info' I find blood pressure drops on initial ingestion(possibly due to shock of the alks hitting the brain) then rises as the flood dose hits' then goes back down and stays there'

300mg Ibogaine HCL is in my opinion too high for someone weighing 60-70 kilo if they wished to walk about' cos it would flood the brain with seretonin and cause attaxia'

200mg is lucid and stimulating with an expanded conciousess' you ingest much over this and you are looking at attaxia as you move about'

500mg hcl is a full blown experience for me of which is visual for just over 6 hours' I now pass out completely on one gram hcl and pass out on 2 grams of PTA 96% and have to be roused gently'
12 grams of Iboga rootbark two days in a row(24grms) is my normal dose' the after effect last 7 months'

If you take large doses it is a good idea to ween yourself down afterwards with small doses under the tongue daily(50-100mg woods) this can prevent the initiate experiencing some painful side effects from large ingestions' and also makes for a softer landing so to speak'

Loving all the work you folks are sticking into this plant and peoples lives'

It is of what life is for to aid each other upon our spiritual paths and share of un-conditional love'


Blessings and Light'

Nobu +