Author Topic: Dosage for therapy (& how to get 'insights') ADVISE PLEASE  (Read 3357 times)

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Offline anon101

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Dosage for therapy (& how to get 'insights') ADVISE PLEASE
« on: November 09, 2011, 06:35:51 PM »
Hi

I myself have had an ibogaine trip quite a while ago and had roughly 14mg/kg (non-addicted) and had towards the mid-end of the trip a few hours lasting "insights" & "visions", i guess you all know what im talking about. it was medium intense, no "movies" but rather like photos flipping from my past and thoughts that came up related or non-related.. generally a good sense of insights into the nature of life and suffering etc etc

now, i sitted a friend of mine who had roughly 10mg/kg ibogaine hcl as a post-depression therapy kind of thing. overall it was a positive experience, he felt "reborn" and the last tad of depression vanished for quite a while. however, insight wise (or you could even say spiritually) there was very little. a few unique thoughts here and there, that was it.

he was interested in gaining insights and therefore after a few months he did some more. it was roughly 3.5-4g of TA extract from ibogaine world, which is said to equal around 1-1,5g ibogaine as far as i am aware. also after consulting the people there, they confirmed it would suffice. however, apart from the experience being a lot more heavy on the body and a lot less satisfying (i.e. lacking the sense of "rebirth"), there was no visions whatsoever.

now we are planning to do the next session, this time with ibogaine hcl. initially we were aiming at 17-18mg/kg but are now wondering whether the lack of visions the previous time could be due to the (bodily, but also psychological) intensity of the previous trip. the question is: is more better? is 15mg/kg or less better for insights, or rather more? he does not mind the bodily intensity as such, but is now worried that maybe he doesn't have any visions or can't remember them due to the high intensity? or maybe the TA extract simply wasn't working? what do you think would be a good dose for visions? is more better?

Offline Jox

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Re: Dosage for therapy (& how to get 'insights') ADVISE PLEASE
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2011, 09:28:52 PM »
HI,

I have a question: when your friend was in iboga zone, full flood,

1. could he sit up in the bed on his own?
2. could he raise his hand?
3. what was his pulse?

IF, he could do all or any above he was NOT in the iboga zone.

If this is true, I will tell you what i think happened.

take care
Jox

Offline anon101

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Re: Dosage for therapy (& how to get 'insights') ADVISE PLEASE
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2011, 05:42:52 AM »
thanks for the answer!

i am a little confused now, what iboga-zone event are you refering to? the first time he did around 800mg of ibogaine hcl and HAD tiny bits of "insights" (very few and not overly visionary) he was even able to walk around, although it was difficult and i had to watch closely. it was quite at the end of the trip, which was already after 16 hours or so (maybe a bit more) and he seemed quite conscious and psychologically-alive but wanted to lay down and close his eyes in order to think about stuff as he was drawn to it.

the other time, with the ca 3,5g of TA extract (he also consumed roughly 10g of maya-ethn root bark over the two days before that), there was never such a state. he was in bed, i felt how the iboga was heavy on his body and mind and it was really more akin to being sick. i did not interpret this as a negative sign at first, as i expected it to simply be an expression of the intensity of the trip. yet, it simply ended like that, the 'feeling terrible' according to him lasted all the way to the end of the trip (which was overall 2-3 days for the rough things) and simply faded out, no feeling of "rebirth", no light-feeling or feeling drawn to thinking about himself etc.. no mind-stuff, no insights. it seemed as if this phase never started OR was overlapped by the intensity.
in the second case, i did not explicitly check his pulse, because he seemed "fine" (considering he took ibogaine and taking into account the amount). he was definitely able to raise his hand and to sit up in the bed on its own if need be, altough he very much avoided doing so and it was not an easy task. a lot more difficult than the first time, but still doable. walking would not have been possible, clearly.
yet, he claims that it was so intense, that he can't remember big portions of the trip. he compared it to being comatose at times, which is surprising to me because although he was highly intoxicated i was not worried and he did not seem to have "lost control" or anything (again, considering its an ibogaine trip). my personal guess was that maybe due to the lack of visions and mind-stuff/thinking, he simply couldn't remember parts because if you are laying in bed for 2 or so days and don't do anything in such a state you simply do not remember everythng; comparable to being ill, in bed with fever, where i, personally, usually don't remember too much which is not due to the fever itself but due to the strain on the body and mind that makes the mind not care about the unimportant things. to make it short: i was of the opinion that he should have remembered anything important if there was something important.

now, trying to take into account his feelings as to the intensity and not-remembering, i was wondering whether it simply was too much. also, i skipped over a few posts here on the forum where people talk about 15mg/kg for a visionary dose and specifically address the issues of intensity and not-remembering in too high doses; yet, i also found posts to the opposite, which great visions at 20+mg/kg and saying that a flood dose is more effective at visionary experiences than other things. people seem to be not entirely agreeing on this issue, although who knows whether this particular issue was adressed..
also, i was surprised because my experience with ibogaine was that the mind-stuff was easy to access.. and my doses have been in the 15mg/kg range, but i felt that it could go beyond that and would increase the mind-part. his situation surprised me somewhat and i am now not sure what to recommend him..

assuming that iboga-worlds TA extract is fine, the other option may be that he simply did not respond to full iboga as well as to ibogaine hcl..

please tell me what you think
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 06:03:27 AM by kuuhkuuh »

Offline Jox

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Re: Dosage for therapy (& how to get 'insights') ADVISE PLEASE
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2011, 01:15:37 PM »
HI,

you said:

he was definitely able to raise his hand and to sit up in the bed on its own if need be, altough he very much avoided doing so and it was not an easy task. a lot more difficult than the first time, but still doable.

this is NOT, iboga zone, as I call it, or this is NOT full flood.

We did 10mg x kg, and my partner couldn't raise a finger, let alone sit up in the bed, and his pulse from 87 beats, went down to less then 60... ONLY this is iboga zone.... full flood. you will have tons of visions...

IBOGA WORLD stuff is not strong enough. Iboga alcaloids loose potency over time, thats why they recomend 15mg x kg. The ibogaine I had was so strong that 10mgxkg was almost too much.

Try reset.nu stuff, maybe is stronger.

OR

http://www.shamanic-extracts.com/xcart/customer/search.php?substring=iboga

If you see the root is very expansive, so it may be full of the alkaloids, and you can try extractions, it is not so difficult at all, I can help you with that.

The reason I say, is that there is no much Ibogaine hcl on the market, only IW and RESET, as far as I know.

IW is just not strong enough, that I know for sure.

take care
Jox

ps.
as you can tell i am talking only of PHYSIOLOGICAL reactions to alcaloids, there is no way not to have all the effects of the plant if your pulse goes down, and your muscles just don't work, they are shut off, you can't even fart.
 IT HAS TO BE THIS WAY, everything else is a weak or no flood at all, and little or no visions, and rebearth, or ego death, however you want to call it.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2011, 01:20:37 PM by Jox »

Offline anon101

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Re: Dosage for therapy (& how to get 'insights') ADVISE PLEASE
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2011, 01:47:37 PM »
so in short you are saying that more is better?

see the thing is that the first time we used ibogaine hcl from sacrament of transition/marko. good experiences with him! the second time, like i said, we used 3,5g TA extrakt from IW combined with (or rather, the two days before he consumed) 10g of Maya-ethn/reset.nu rootbark, also reliable stuff.i assume your comment on 10mg/kg and not being able to move a finger was rather metaphorical?

what are your recommendations? going for more? currently we have ibogaine hcl from marko/SoT and are aiming at somewhere between 1-1,5g, i.e. between 12mg/kg and 18mg/kg.. but are not sure yet whether to go for the latter or the former, or somewhere in between. initially, we thought of going all the way since he is experienced with other things and also these two experiences and wants to go "all the way". on the other hand, he is definitely not only in the need of the physiological healing, but also the spiritual one, by which i mean the visions and insights..

Offline Jox

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Re: Dosage for therapy (& how to get 'insights') ADVISE PLEASE
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2011, 10:31:42 AM »
Hi,

you say:

i assume your comment on 10mg/kg and not being able to move a finger was rather metaphorical?

no, this was a fact, barely he could move a finger, and not able to sit up... IW is weak stuff.

I don't know where did my 1 g came from, but it was the best ever, but i suspect it came from Sacrement of transition, Marco, can you pls give me his contact, I REALLY WANT TO GET HIS IBOGAINE.

If your friends get to Iboga zone, the way I mention, he will get the psychological curing, yet he may not remember the visions... They are present with open and closed eyes... you can ask your friend to repeat the visions, every now and then, this way he may remember.

But my take VISIONS ARE MENTAL DUMP, once they are out, they don't have meaning... you move on with your life, like taking a dump, you don't sit in front of it and observe it, you move on and observe the world...

Yet it is good to go to Zen center, or start a therapy, or which ever style, but regular dedication is what increases the observation of self so the mechanism of our mind is understood, and doesn't repeat the same pattern and get to the same place again in a year or so....

but please again get me the link if possible

thnx
Jox

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Dosage for therapy (& how to get 'insights') ADVISE PLEASE
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2011, 02:56:24 PM »
Regarding sourcing these materials - we have sponsors that donate to the boards so we can keep this thing going for all. If there are sources other than our listed sponsors please pm and keep these links off the open forum. We are in the process of accumulating and rearranging new support for Eboka, and this will provide more variety of safe and reliable vendors.

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