Author Topic: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!  (Read 11408 times)

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Offline Eon T McKnight

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1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« on: April 30, 2010, 01:19:20 PM »
This topic is dedicated to those contemplating extracting ibogaine from T. iboga root bark (RB) who have little experience in the ancient art of extraction.  I felt compelled to start this due to the two unsuccessful extraction attempts made by goatboy.

If you have ever brewed coffee or tea, you have performed an extraction.  It was probably successful, too.  However, making a passable cup of joe and turning a pile of RB into an active powder are not the same.

Chris Jenks' extraction tek is easy  --  as far as such things are ever easy.  But there are many ways it can fail.  It took me numerous experiences with extracting a variety of plants to gain enough knowledge to understand the basics  --  and I still botched a recent RB extraction.

It is my hope that Forum members will relate some of their knowledge here to guide first-timers so that goatboy's experience will be helpful to those contemplating production of the Gold Elixir.

Guerrilla Alchemy!

Eon
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 01:22:14 PM by Eon T McKnight »

fallout330

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2010, 01:26:56 PM »
Good stuff Eon.  I think I'll stick to root bark for first attempt.  Extraction will come next  :D

Offline goatboy

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2010, 02:33:34 PM »
Ya.  It sucks losing all your RB to a botched extraction, I can attest to that, twice.  :(  I still just don't get it, I guess I'm just not cut out for the extraction as of now, but I'm good with other plants...

While my advice would be pointless, I would say the best thing to do is, like I have been told by a smart man and still failed to do as good as I should have, WATCH IT LIKE A HAWK!  Every single little fucking part of it...specially on the first/second time.  I still would like to hear people's tips on what they do for successful batches each time.

And I thought Chris Jenks' would be easy as baking a cake too, but apparently not to everyone, and I don't consider myself particularly dumb (with MOST things).  And Chris' tek includes ammonia rather than the basic acetic extract.  Still not sure which one's easiest considering I've tried both and failed.  Hopefully someone learns from my mistakes, whatever they may have been...now my first REAL meeting with eboka will have to come a different way rather than my own extraction that I really thought would be reasonably easy.  Be careful!!  And if you don't have room for risk, go HCl right off the bat.  I wish I would have just done that at this point now...
Rise, Run, Feed, Ripen, Wound, Wither, Fall, Rise Again...

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2010, 02:49:22 PM »
I think goatboy just didn't get enough, clean enough, to get where he expected.  I mean I do have a lot of experience with extracting things, but it's really easy.  I would say 100g of quality root bark should be enough for one dose and a booster.  The way I see it, is good bark is 4-6% alkaloids, so from 100g of bark, one should get 4-6 grams of pure TA.  About 60-80% of that is ibogaine.  So 100g should give around 3-3.5 g of ibogaine (100g x 5% alks= 5g of which 70% is ibogaine), and 1.5-2.5 g other alkaloids.  This could make two doses, for most people, but I would probably take more like 2-3g of TA myself, so I'd say 100g is one dose and a booster..  I would probably suggest eating at least 4-6g of the freebase TA, if that's as far as you took it, or probably 2-3 g of the TA HCl.
GratefulDad

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Offline goatboy

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2010, 03:15:43 PM »
One of my concerns is that, say I had about half of a flood dose at least...how come it didn't help with my tolerance at all?? didn't feel like I was half tripping?? didn't have any real introspectiveness??  I'd say I 'felt' the first extract I did slightly more (after all it was more RB and more 'purified'), but overall is just taking a half flood dose while deep in w/d's always not positive reacting or is my body just responding to this medicine different than others?
Rise, Run, Feed, Ripen, Wound, Wither, Fall, Rise Again...

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2010, 03:38:22 PM »
Well, half a flood dose, would definitely take away the withdrawal for a little while for me.  I am not sure exactly what is going on with you.  I really don't know what the deal is, but I bet if I gave you a decent dose it'd definitely give you some profound effects. 

I know when I did the acetic acid extract, I used about 30-40 grams of bark worth of the extract, I got a good buzz, and my withdrawal went away for 12 or so hours, but it started coming back as the dose wore off..  I did throw up some of it, but surely 30-40g of bark is what Nobu and everyone suggests, which didn't really do all that much to me.  I mean I was definitely feeling ataxia, seeing some trails, and had a bit of the shakes, but I didn't get any strong visions, and it didn't knock out all the withdrawal.  My tolerance did not seem to go down much, although I did slowly reduce over the next few weeks, pretty easily, so it did have some benefits.

 I think the key is to stop listening to all the people warning about going over 20 mg/kg, especially with the TA, because I think at 20+ is where it really starts working.  I was probably about 65 Kg when I ate 2.5 g of TA HCl, and it was enough to help me change all my bad habits for a good bit.  Everything I have done since has paled in comparison, so I say screw the low doses, you need enough to do the job, and for me that is likely 50+ g of bark, plus boosters.
GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

Offline Eon T McKnight

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2010, 04:10:59 PM »
While it is certainly true that someone with no previous experience can prepare an active extract, I feel regret for not having influenced goatboy to buy some TA or HCl instead of attempting 2 RB extractions.

If he had gone ahead and purchased the extracts, would he have been successful kicking the sub by now?

Would it have cost him any more money?  Any more time?  Any more disappointment?

I just want to be sure that people coming to the Forum are given the best possible advice for their own particular situation.

One of my friends  --  who has excellent lab skills, regularly synthesizes compounds and has a PhD in Pharmacology  --  burnt up a batch of 1000 peyote buttons.  OUCH !    :'(

Shit happens.

~et

fallout330

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2010, 04:12:08 PM »
That's a lot of Peyote Buttons  :o  :(

Offline Eon T McKnight

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2010, 04:21:44 PM »
Ya, and that was driving from Chicago to Texas and back to get them  --  36 hours each way.  We filled several buckets with our big salty tears on that one...   ~e
« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 04:24:46 PM by Eon T McKnight »

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2010, 06:55:20 PM »
The amount of bark you had should have been sufficient to at the very least, seriously interrupt withdrawal and have other clearly noticeable effects.

I'm curious as well on this one...how long did you put between your last opiate dose and the ibo? I know you said you are on xanax - how much  did you have on board when dosed the extract? There may have been some issue with how it was dried? I'm certainly not trying to rub it in dude, but I know we would all like to try to get to the bottom of this to help future endeavors. Thanks for posting your results too, these are costly but valuable experiences. Maybe we can narrow it down to reveal if it was a mistake in the extraction process someplace, or some discrepancy in the dosing protocol, or what have you...

I would definitely suggest finding some reputable vendor and getting a prepared batch of material. Sorry to hear of the hardship.
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline Eon T McKnight

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2010, 09:33:50 PM »
OK.  Guess I'll just have to come out and say it.

In my very humble opinion, based upon many years' experience making alkaloidal plant extracts:

  •   If this is your first attempt at extracting;
  •   Unless you have someone who will assist you throughout the ENTIRE procedure;
  •   Unless you have money to burn and can make several attempts;
  •   Unless you don't care how long it takes;
  •   Unless you ARE NOT DESPERATE AND WILL HAVE ZERO PROBLEM IF THE PROCEDURE FAILS;

then DO NOT ATTEMPT TO EXTRACT IBOGAINE BY YOURSELF ! ! !

Buy the TA extract or the HCl instead.  Period.

I know that is not what you wanted to hear.  But, I believe it is good advice.  Buying an extract or purified alkaloid will be cheaper and more reliable.  Dosages will be easier to determine.  You chances of successful detox/addiction interruption will increase.  If this is important to you, don't try to save a few bucks by doing it in the sink  --  it could just end up in the toilet.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but the fundamental purpose of this Forum is to help people get clean and heal themselves.  Information on extraction procedures is smoovey, but not fundamental.

goatboy, you have just been there.  What would you recommend to someone with little or no experience asking for help?  Would you suggest they try doing an extraction or buying a professionally made extract?

My $0.0199999      ~ Eon

fallout330

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2010, 09:44:28 PM »
Good advice Eon.  That is why I will go RB and not even attempt an extraction to TA.  Another thing I'm not dealing with is detoxing from another substance such as goatboy is(Besides SNRI controlled detox), so that makes things a bit more flexible. 

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2010, 10:17:40 PM »
I say go ahead and just buy the stuff, too.  If you can't seem to do it yourself, then just buying, while more expensive per dose, might work out about the same, if you screw up extracting, so do whatever you feel comfy with.  The point of the extraction was to make it more accessible.  Buying a 100g of bark is usually cheaper than 5g of TA HCl, so that is why I used it, and suggest it.  

But if by any means you are not confident in your abilities, or do not want to risk anything, besides losing an illegal crystal substance in the mail, then just buy the extract online however you can manage.  While I find it extremely unfortunate that goatboy was unsuccessful, I am just totally unsure of what was done, and what he got for yield, etc, and if I was able to get all that detail, I am sure I could figure out the trouble.  Last I heard, he was going to take like 2.5 g of freebase TA, which is likely only 50% pure, which is nowhere near enough for a full flood dose.

By all means, just get it however ya can.  I have had luck getting mislabeled bark, cactus, and other things in the country by mail, but sending crystally powders through customs seems like it could be difficult, so you might just end up losing your money for absolutely nothing but a fancy customs letter.  I wish everyone the best of luck in acquiring whatever they can, and if all you can get is bark, then the extraction is a possibility..

« Last Edit: April 30, 2010, 11:00:15 PM by GratefulDad »
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Offline x

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2010, 10:49:35 PM »
Hot n' heavy, wow. Love it.

Couple points: it's not impossible, or even that difficult, to get ibo in the states. Without incriminating anyone, there are some very trustworthy and reputable suppliers who understand the situation here and can and do help. Also, some providers are willing to supply as well. I welcome private inquiries about these things.

Also, on mg/kg, I have gone higher than 20mg/kg a few times. Some need it. I have also seen someone so deep she didn't respond to her name at 9mg/kg. Depends on type of habit, length of habit, age, general health, many factors. My best advice is to get twice what you'll think you'll need and have someone near who knows ibo and can see where you're at and give you more if needed. Twice what you anticipate needing for dose, so you can throw some up, have some if dose isn't sufficient, and if left over, you have boosters.

Alsox2, Iboga has it's own agenda and timeline. This is fer real, friends. I've seen it time and again, the best laid plans of men/women/lalala all to the wind if Iboga knows another time is better.

T

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2010, 11:00:22 PM »
BTW, I just wanted to add, I have no college training, no chemistry background, had no one holding my hand through the extraction, and I had perfect results my first time.  So like with anything, take anything you hear with a grain of salt.  You'll have people tell you you should not extract, people who'll tell you not to do it without a sitter, people who'll tell you not to go over 20 mg/kg and more.  While these are good precautions for some, if no one ever did any of these things, then we would have far fewer success stories, I am sure.  

The extraction is very simple.  Mix bark with vinegar, let sit an hour, strain, repeat 3 times.  Combine the vinegar portions, evaporate some if you'd like to reduce the volume, then mix in strong ammonia.  Let the precipitate settle, and filter it out, then rinse liberally with water.  Let it dry, then grind it up and mix with acetone, strain the acetone through a coffee filter, to remove any solids, then add some drops of concentrated hydrochloric acid to the acetone, and watch the crystals start crashing out.  Throw it in the fridge over night, then filter out the crystals.  

With that basic concept I typed in a few sentences I did it, and I didn't have all the measurements I made in the detailed extraction, even.  I added those all to make it easier and more precise, but I didn't have those measurements when I did it, so it's very possible to just fuck around and get it right.  The only problem that arises is when you discard things before you have all the goodies, or you decide not to take it all the way and still aren't sure what your doing, but go for it anyways.

I do wish you all the best of luck, in whatever you try to do.
GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."