Author Topic: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!  (Read 11409 times)

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Offline Eon T McKnight

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2010, 12:24:18 AM »
" I had perfect results my first time "  --  GDad, you speak of getting cactus, etc. so I am thinking your RB extraction was not the first one you ever did.  Is that correct?

I spent a fair amount of time PM-ing & talking to goatboy with tips as I believe you and harveyplex did, too.  I know gb gave it his best effort, twice.  From conversations with him, he ain't no dummy.

Yeah sure, if Cal can do it, anybody can, right?   :D  (Sorry to pick on you, Cal, just trying to make a point.  No hard feelings, buddy?)  But Cal had prior experience and friends to help.  Right, Cal?

I have personally burned up stuff on several occasions.  I will probably do it again.  When things get close to being dry, the heat must be reduced/removed VERY CAREFULLY or things burn  --  even below the BP of H2O.  Basically, without expensive temperature controlled equipment, one can't walk away from something on a steam/hot water bath for more than 5 minutes.  Having a partner/assistant is a BIG help, IMHO.

Dad, I am not criticizing your tek nor your obviously sincere and earnest interest to help.  Both are flawless.  I am just questioning the advisability of counseling a neophyte to try it by him/herself.

This is not just something to get high with.  This is something crucial to the mental and physical health of someone who is at the end of his/her rope.  Someone desperate for a cure.

I hope I'm not coming off angry here.  I do admit to beating myself up for not steering gb toward purchasing an extract when the subject first came up.  To sooth my troubled conscience, I felt compelled to present the 'other' side of the coin.

Please do not take my posts as criticism or hostility or anything like that.  I offered to drive to gb's or have him come here to do the second extraction, which unfortunately did not happen.  Would another set of eyes made a difference?  We'll never know.

After my first botched RB extraction, I took someone up on her kind and generous offer to get me some TA.  While I am sure I could have done the procedure you outlined, Dad, I was not 100% positive.  The results were far too important to risk fucking up again.  In retrospect, I am happy with my decision.

When I have more time and am not under the kind of stress and anxiety that I was pre-iboga, I can definitely see myself doing extractions.  It is hard working effectively when it appears the whole world is about to collapse on your head (said Chicken Little).

OK, I think my conscience is mollified.

Peace & Love to all you Peaceful and Lovely People!

McKnight

PS  --  And that was my fair warning to all you peaceful and lovely neophytes.  May your alkaloids be as fresh and pure as new-fallen snow!    ~McK

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2010, 12:54:27 AM »
" I had perfect results my first time "  --  GDad, you speak of getting cactus, etc. so I am thinking your RB extraction was not the first one you ever did.  Is that correct?

That is correct, I had previous successful experiences with many kinds of plants.  I think I may have lost a few alkaloids here and there a long time ago, but if one saves everything, I could figure out how to get it out.

With that being said, I don't care how anyone acquires it, just giving an option if someone wants to do it themselves.  I prefer to trust myself over random extracts, but I understand what I am doing..
GratefulDad

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Offline goatboy

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2010, 11:12:56 AM »
Ya, geez, this thread is heavy towards my failure :(  But I appreciate everything Eon is trying to point out, and all of that is very important.  

GD - Although I think the first time, had I had 100g for the A/B extraction, I think that might have done the trick actually (Although I say that with knowledge from my experience, and there are some things I would of done differently second time around w/ the A/B (chris jenks method) of it.  But I had in mind 50g would suffice, but that is apparently was said in a thread using the acetic extraction method.  

And yes Cal, I can't think of anything I did wrong besides the drying that I see you've heard about through the grapevine, but I can't be sure of it really...When I was drying the mix off, I was gonna do it at night, but it was like 3am, so since I already put a good 5 hrs. at least of work already, I decided to wait untill morning, and planned to wake up early.  So I ended up waking up at 6am, put it in the oven at 200F, then layed down, two hours passed.  I then woke up again and checked it, looked to be going good, so I went to go lay down for only intentionally a half hour maybe before checking again.  Well I woke up about 2+ hrs, and ran to go check it, and at first it looked I had just caught it in time, I was still moist but no liquid at all left whatsoever...did I let it sit for too long? Idk, I couldn't say for sure.  But I still had high hopes considering ibo can only burn up at 300 and it was at 200 and not totally burnt or anything.  But throughout the process, everything went smoothly except that.  So maybe that was my mistake.  Also, I gave myself about a little over 24 hrs, wanna say about 36 even, and I took 1mg of xanax the whole day that I planned to go on the journey, and I'm pretty sure it wore off by the time I started taking the herb extract.

Eon - I now do regret being impatient and not taking more of your offered help, which I much appreciate.  And you mentioned 'goatboy, you have just been there.  What would you recommend to someone with little or no experience asking for help?  Would you suggest they try doing an extraction or buying a professionally made extract?  Well like I said in an above post   'And if you don't have room for risk, go HCl right off the bat.  I wish I would have just done that at this point now...'

I'm still curious as my body chemistry working positively with Iboga.  Like is there a percentage of people that it works for, and some people it just doesn't work, positively, period.??  I heard it works at least a new sense of being short-term and tolerance wise for most everyone, could I be like a 1% that's immune to this.  I am just thinking this because as far as Tryptamine's go (referring to DMT mostly, I'm not sure what is all in that family that I've tried...mushrooms and blotter work wonders for me tho), I have never gotten full experience the full effects my peers have.  Even after taking a double dose.  Just a small thought that is bothering me before I go in for my last attempt at this for the time being.  I'm hoping, I'm just one of those hard nuts to crack so to say, so this time I plan to go about 25mg/kg HCl.  

And much thanks to Harvey, and Eon for all the help with everything and concerns...I really need support at this point.  I plan to make a positive ending to this never ending process you guys that have been helping me out with.  Even though so far nothing...I'm NOT giving up STILL.  I'm actually been opiate free forrr, about 3 days, which is hell, but really I'm working on staying clean all the way to my next session and sucking up with the horrible w/d's, benzo's only, and not even abusing them.

Rise, Run, Feed, Ripen, Wound, Wither, Fall, Rise Again...

fallout330

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2010, 11:41:13 AM »
Great thread! I wish I could add more, but I'm at the beginning steps myself.  Sending you hopeful vibes Goatboy.

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2010, 01:05:50 PM »
Goatboy, I seriously doubt it's a matter of your brain chemistry not working with iboga.  I am confident it's simply the dose range.  As I said, it takes me a hell of a lot more than 90% of the people I read about.  I honestly have no idea why I feel I need a much higher than recommended dosage than many suggest, but I do, for sure.  

I have done iboga 3 times, and the only dose that really gave me the visions and stuff that people describe under iboga, was a dose of TA HCl, 2.5 g for a 63 Kg person (at the time I was under weight from reducing my methadone dose).  That would be over 39+ mg/kg of the TA HCl.  At that dose, it gave lasting benefits and even though some of the changes that occurred were very subtle, they were lasting and beneficial to my health.  

Things I had no intention of stopping suddenly became less desirable, and turns out they were all things that were not very healthy.  I could see you not liking iboga, or not giving it a chance, but I really can't see it just not doing the same shit to your brain that it does to everyone else's.
GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

Offline Eon T McKnight

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2010, 03:24:19 PM »
Goatboy, please forgive me for using your experience as an example.  By doing so, the discussion could be about actual events instead of hypothetical ones.  I figured that rehashing these sad results would be somewhat uncomfortable but felt that the benefit/knowledge that could be gained by you, me, Forum members and especially someone contemplating doing his/her first-time iboga extraction will outweigh the costs.

I consider this to be my failure, too.  What did I forget to tell you?  What was I unclear about?  What should I have done or said differently?  The reason I started this thread was not to make anyone feel bad; it was because I already felt bad.  I felt like shit and was compelled wave my hands in the air and shout "Whoa!" before it happened again.

Again, please forgive me, but I think that there is something valuable to be learned here.

"ibo can only burn up at 300 and it was at 200 and not totally burnt or anything"  --  I really, really do not like using an oven for drying, that is why I recommended a crockpot and a fan.  The oven temperature setting is for the AVERAGE temperature.  The heating element goes well over the target temperature before it kicks off.  Heat is the enemy of ALL compounds.  The higher the temperature, the faster the rate of degradation.  While some chemical might survive 10 minutes at 300 degrees, the same one could be destroyed by spending one hour at 150 degrees.  If it was on metal, hot spots and rapid conduction of heat could make 200 degrees seem like 400.

Having said all that, I am now going to say something that should convince you that I am utterly, absolutely, 100% bat-shit-loco:  "Third time's the charm!"  If you want to try again, here at my place, together, I'm up for it.    :o

If you turn around and run away as fast as you can, yelling:  "Oh God, save me from this maniac!" I will totally understand.    ;)

Eon

Offline goatboy

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #21 on: May 03, 2010, 01:42:56 PM »
No I def understand where your coming from and all...No need to feel bad bro.  I fucked up, although maybe things could've went different, there's no one to blame but MYSELF.  And if this helps someone else in the future, then hey, it'd make me feel better for sure.

 "ibo can only burn up at 300 and it was at 200 and not totally burnt or anything"  --  I really, really do not like using an oven for drying, that is why I recommended a crockpot and a fan.  The oven temperature setting is for the AVERAGE temperature.  The heating element goes well over the target temperature before it kicks off.  Heat is the enemy of ALL compounds.  The higher the temperature, the faster the rate of degradation.  While some chemical might survive 10 minutes at 300 degrees, the same one could be destroyed by spending one hour at 150 degrees.  If it was on metal, hot spots and rapid conduction of heat could make 200 degrees seem like 400.

I quoted that whole piece because I think that's all VERY important to know for drying those ways.  Although I did not use metal, maybe leaving a pyrex cooking dish in the over for 4 hours at 200, maybe it overheated it after all.  Althought the crockpot/fan technique takes longer, it does seem like the way to go, but you still have to watch that mothaeffer...

And Eon, I would take up your offer more than anything right now, I regret not using your assistance and deep knowledge because mostly of my impatience and confidence.  But I'm not going to RB method any time soon again, I simply just cannot afford it.  I spent the rest of my money and then some this soon coming last chance not gonna do any extraction or RB teks.  HCl and plenty of it, so that will determine my true results.  And of course, as always I will fill yall in.

Eon has a lot of heart, and just as much smarts, as everyone can see.  But he is a genuine good man.  Good looking out bro!  How many people would have offered the help that you offered and reached out to help in any way to someone they don't REALLY know.  Although I put everything out there in previous threads, still, ya kno.
 
I am gonna make this a success story for all of you, my doctor, and mostly myself.  And obviously I'm not gonna bluff or lie about it, I admit to my mistakes and want to find the true essence of this 'golden elixor'

Much love and peace to all of you with good intentions.  I've come to feel like this is like another family that's really looking out for me (as far as guiding me towards the best way I can think of to end this hell of a life, and helping, and offered help)

Rise, Run, Feed, Ripen, Wound, Wither, Fall, Rise Again...

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2010, 02:56:27 PM »
This thread is great example of what this forum can be. Unfortunately there have been some hard bumps in the road for our good friend goatboy - but, these experiences are truly valuable for others who come after us. Documenting these things is so important...I was just on the phone with pkeffect telling him thanks for working to expand the site and reminiscing about when I did my first flood. There was nothing like this out there then, and now seeing this place bloom and grow makes me feel good about the work all of you are doing and the great people who come here to share. I am proud of all of you guys and it makes me proud to see our little village expanding like this....so thanks to each of you!

Goatboy - I know this has been a hell of a ride for you, but hold on to the knowledge that your mistakes or misfortunes (chronicled here) will help other people to avoid pitfalls along the way. As Tia said, iboga really does have its own timeline and perhaps when you finally do get a successful treatment under your belt, hindsight will reveal things to you that you may not have been able to see otherwise.

You haven't given up, I like to see that. It inspires all of us to do better.

Reading your posts I am still kind of at a loss as to exactly what happened but I tend to lean toward what GratefulDad says about dose. All things considered - you may have just simply been way under the mark. I would have thought the amount you began with to be sufficient to at least really give you an idea of this, but who knows? Perhaps it was a combination of factors...

Your attitude is what's really important in this phase of your journey. Maybe it's 'testing' you to see how serious you are? Each of us has their own personal chronology in these ventures, and I have long been of the opinion that these types of medicines and devices look at us as much as we look at them. I know it has cost you time and money and I would not make light of your situation, but as weird as it sounds, this stuff does have a spirit and an 'agenda'. Like I said, hopefully you will get a good one soon and be able to look back with the proverbial 20/20 vision of retrospect.

And yes, Eon, I had some help with my first extraction - just a couple friends who had previous work with other plants to share. It wasn't my very first extraction of anything, but it was my first time working with this particular stuff. You know how when you go horseback riding (if you ever have) - a horse will know instantly whether the person on his back has experience. Whether or not they are confident, or fearful, they read our attitudes and abilities right away. I think these plants can be likened to this: certain ones are more 'outgoing' than others. Some are more readily accepting of our desires or intentions, some will perhaps be stubborn or even uncooperative. But the more we practice and stay with it, the more we learn and share, the greater and more rewarding our experiences.

Much love to all of you!
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline x

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2010, 07:54:02 PM »
gd- while you know far more about the chemistry than I, I do know that the TA people most commonly work with is 25-30% active alkaloids. would that change the mg/kg of your first experience?

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2010, 11:21:52 PM »
Yes, knowing the purity of your extract would be very beneficial to calculating dosage.  Taking it to crystal form, even if tan, is still probably well over 80-90% pure, but with recrystallizations, one could get it even more pure.
GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

Offline Eon T McKnight

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2010, 12:25:53 PM »
From a PM from me to goatboy:

"Looks like both times it was bad RB.  Please accept my apologies for saying you messed-up.

With hands in pockets, downcast eyes and hanging head,

Your Chastised Friend,

Eon"


Recent information has shown that the RB that goatboy extracted was NOT T. iboga.  While that information certainly undercuts my message to neophyte alchemists, I nevertheless think that there is some good advice and warnings in this topic.  As long as T. iboga remains illegal in the US, we will have to contend with stuff like this.   ~eon

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2010, 01:00:27 PM »
Makes sense.  That's why I couldn't figure out what he did wrong, because he didn't!  lol  Well, I am happy he didn't just give up!
GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

Offline goatboy

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2010, 05:04:23 PM »
Tu che'  Dam I can't believe it was that all along..
Rise, Run, Feed, Ripen, Wound, Wither, Fall, Rise Again...

fallout330

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2010, 10:57:49 PM »
Amazing to hear goatboy....really glad you came out ok in the end!

Nganga Nobunoni +

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Re: 1st Time Extraction? Read this first!
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2010, 03:08:02 AM »
Well, half a flood dose, would definitely take away the withdrawal for a little while for me.  I am not sure exactly what is going on with you.  I really don't know what the deal is, but I bet if I gave you a decent dose it'd definitely give you some profound effects. 

I know when I did the acetic acid extract, I used about 30-40 grams of bark worth of the extract, I got a good buzz, and my withdrawal went away for 12 or so hours, but it started coming back as the dose wore off..  I did throw up some of it, but surely 30-40g of bark is what Nobu and everyone suggests, which didn't really do all that much to me.  I mean I was definitely feeling ataxia, seeing some trails, and had a bit of the shakes, but I didn't get any strong visions, and it didn't knock out all the withdrawal.  My tolerance did not seem to go down much, although I did slowly reduce over the next few weeks, pretty easily, so it did have some benefits.

 I think the key is to stop listening to all the people warning about going over 20 mg/kg, especially with the TA, because I think at 20+ is where it really starts working.  I was probably about 65 Kg when I ate 2.5 g of TA HCl, and it was enough to help me change all my bad habits for a good bit.  Everything I have done since has paled in comparison, so I say screw the low doses, you need enough to do the job, and for me that is likely 50+ g of bark, plus boosters.


Start your TA doses at 34mg/kg body weight and work up!

Bliss!

Nobu +