Author Topic: What to do between stopping suboxone and flood dose??  (Read 14690 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline lightswitchedon

  • Donating Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 255
    • View Profile
What to do between stopping suboxone and flood dose??
« on: March 24, 2012, 10:54:06 AM »
I have read numerous times that those of us on suboxone need to discontinue use several weeks prior to taking the flood dose.  My plan was to transistion to kratom for 3 weeks.  At that time I would estimate my sub dose to be .5mg, however I am quite certain that if I were to just ween off altogether then I would not be getting out of bed to go to work.  I need to do something for those 3 weeks and luckily I have several months to discuss and prepare for it.  Can someone let me know what the best thing to do would be?  I am not opposed to using narcotic pain meds as I am confident that I will follow through as planned, but I'm not sure how I would even get those meds.

Offline Calaquendi

  • cosmic elf
  • Donating Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1600
    • View Profile
Re: What to do between stopping suboxone and flood dose??
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2012, 11:36:58 AM »
A low dose of a short acting opiate would be ideal - something like hydrocodone, if you could find some and keep the dose reasonable, for me - I would have to have someone else dole them out or I would do all of them in one go.

Another option is poppy pods - they contain morphine and codeine (neither of which stand a chance against Iboga) and are pretty cheap and easy to procure.

« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 11:38:59 AM by Calaquendi »
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline lightswitchedon

  • Donating Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 255
    • View Profile
Re: What to do between stopping suboxone and flood dose??
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2012, 03:30:58 PM »
Thanks for the reply.  Based on a couple ppl reccommending, I will probably go the pods route for about 10 days.  It would be nice to know what to expect with that.

Offline GratefulDad

  • Dead Head
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1364
  • Uncle Sam wants you to be a Shaman!!
    • View Profile
Re: What to do between stopping suboxone and flood dose??
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2012, 04:41:28 PM »
I would do the pods for closer to 3-4 weeks, since you want to really train your endorphin system to get used to the cycle of the short acting opiate, while allowing all the metabolites of the suboxone to work their way out of the receptors. 

When switching to pods you should start off with a determined dose and wait for an hour to see how it's working, then up the dose in increments, waiting an hour between each upgrade, until you find the working dose that makes you feel okay, but not high.  Then you can lower it by a few grams every 3-5 days, until you aren't comfortable, then stick to the dose that just gets you by.  For someone with no tolerance, 5-10 grams of powdered pod material (from my source) is where they begin to get the analgesic/euphoric effects.  This obviously jumps up a fair bit when someone has a tolerance.

You can slowly reduce your pod dose while planning for your iboga flood, and if you aren't using the pods to get high, you can really make it easier on yourself to step down very low.  I find that a minimal dose of pods is effective for 12 hours, so dosing twice a day on your minimal dose should keep you fine all day and night.  I have even done a dose that made me feel good for 24 hours, but then I do wake up feeling the beginning of withdrawal, while splitting that dose in half and doing them 12 hours apart keeps me more even, and less of the up and down feeling occurs.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2012, 04:48:30 PM by GratefulDad »
GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

Offline Calaquendi

  • cosmic elf
  • Donating Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1600
    • View Profile
Re: What to do between stopping suboxone and flood dose??
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2012, 05:05:37 PM »
^^^^ yeah ^^^^
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline digital_phreedom

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 490
    • View Profile
Re: What to do between stopping suboxone and flood dose??
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2012, 02:38:07 AM »
^^^^

^^^^
double yeah
Embrace this moment, remember: We are eternal. All this pain is an illusion.

Offline evolutionofone

  • Banzi
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 117
    • View Profile
Re: What to do between stopping suboxone and flood dose??
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2012, 12:32:26 AM »
Lightswitched on, I just noticed this after I responded in another my thread you posted in. I haven't been on here for a while. Anyway I came off a year of sub & was on short acting opiates for two weeks before my flood & it was not enough, not at all. You need way more than 10 days of SAO.  I had a hard time functioning the first two months, extreme lethargy & no desire to do anything. First month was the worst. I could never have held a job in that period.  Look at it this way, the longer you're on SAO before you flood, the less you suffer. Imo, at least a month, if I could do it again I would have gone 2 months at least if not more.

Offline lightswitchedon

  • Donating Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 255
    • View Profile
Re: What to do between stopping suboxone and flood dose??
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2012, 11:04:26 PM »
My plan for now -

Next Friday I am going to go without sub other than my morning dose of .125mg.  Being as it acts similar to a SAO at these low doses, I will be feeling a good bit of withdrawal by Friday evening.  I know this from past experience.  Friday evening I am going to slowly up my pod intake until I feel good and high.  By Saturday morning I will see where things stand and take more if necessary....just enough to hold.  I will attempt to do this throughout the weekend right up until Sunday night all the while evaluating how I feel and whether or not the sub withdrawal is masked.

I have already tried pods to no avail, however I may not have taken enough and I didn't really give it a chance.  What I found was my physical withdrawal symptoms subsided, but my anxiety and depression was ever growing.  Suboxone seems to act as a powerful antidepressant.  Morphine and codeine never took the edge off depression and that's what pods essentially break down to if I am not mistaken.

If this fails, I am going to have to go the norco or percocet route.  I know that this will work, although it may be like sticking my hand in the fire and asking not to get burned.  The only thing that I have going for me is the fact that I am very serious about the goal here.  I haven't spent 3 years working hard putting my life back together to fuck it all up.  I certainly won't do all this without help and support from friends and the good folks on this forum. 

My flood will take place around July 1st.  Maybe I am trying to switch to SAOs too soon, however I really don't want to leave anything to chance.  I have been on subs for almost 4 years and feel that this is some powerful stuff in ways altogether different from other opiates, and I was on an extremely high dose of methadone before the sub.  Sub may not be liquid handcuffs, but it sure as hell is a chemical prison.

I would very much appreciate feedback from those well versed in these matters.

Offline GratefulDad

  • Dead Head
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1364
  • Uncle Sam wants you to be a Shaman!!
    • View Profile
Re: What to do between stopping suboxone and flood dose??
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2012, 09:52:34 AM »
Pods will work if you find the right dose and give 'em a chance, especially if you have success with oxycodone (in percocet)..  It may take you  20-30+ grams of pods to find where it works well for you, but they definitely will...  They are also much easier to control than oxycodone (or other SAO pills) or heroin, IME...
GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

Offline Calaquendi

  • cosmic elf
  • Donating Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1600
    • View Profile
Re: What to do between stopping suboxone and flood dose??
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2012, 07:48:21 PM »
I do not think you are switching to SAOs too soon - I don't think there IS a too soon for that. The longer you are away from long half life, synthetic opioids, the better. Your treatment will go smoother and be less taxing on you physically - and the real gem is that your recovery time will be far less the more removed you are from crap like suboxone or methadone.

Really does make a big difference!

PS - you are correct about morphine/codeine (pods) not having the effect of mitigating depression: these drugs will not produce the euphoria that semi synthetics like oxycodone or hydrocodone would - so if you go looking for anything resembling 'high' from poppies, you'll likely end up with your head in the toilet urking your brains out. This is what happened to me. NO fun, morphine. I never liked that crap, and when I was actively using daily I would only use morphine if I could not get anything else. It only keeps you from getting sick, that's all. There will be some give-and-take with a roll over. If you can afford the money, and can control your dosing, hydrocodone/oxycodone are fine SAOs, but one reason that I like to suggest people use things like MS Contin (morphine) is precisely because there isn't any 'fun' about it. It gets you geared up for when you aren't taking anything - after your flood...

In your current antediluvian state you may need to go to Norco then to pods, I do not know how severe your depression is. I know that horrible feeling though, it is scary. Scarier than anything. Just be mindful of juggling these different chemicals and take care of yourself. If you plan to flood in July you have time to work on things. Best to you!

« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 07:59:48 PM by Calaquendi »
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline lightswitchedon

  • Donating Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 255
    • View Profile
Re: What to do between stopping suboxone and flood dose??
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2012, 12:36:59 AM »
I have consumed 2 cups of poppy tea thus far, each prepared with 9g of pod material.  The first cup was drank at 8pm and the second at 10pm.  I feel somewhat alright other than the stomach discomfort.  Minor cramping and moderate bloating have persisted for the past few hours and it sucks.  Is this common and will it subside as I continue drinking the tea day after day?  Maybe the stomach / digestive system needs to adjust? 

I have been dealing with candida overgrowth issues ever since taking antibiotics (mistake) a few months ago.  The fact that I added honey to sweeten the tea may be part of the problem.  Maybe there is a better way to flavor this awful, bitter NASTY tea???

Offline Calaquendi

  • cosmic elf
  • Donating Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1600
    • View Profile
Re: What to do between stopping suboxone and flood dose??
« Reply #11 on: April 28, 2012, 10:17:38 AM »
Boy that shit IS nasty. I got to where it was actually better for me to grind a few pods down to powder in a coffee grinder and eat the powder mixed in applesauce or something which has its very own grossness properties. There's no way to get around how gross it is, at least I never found a way. Sorry   :D
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline lightswitchedon

  • Donating Member
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 255
    • View Profile
Re: What to do between stopping suboxone and flood dose??
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2012, 02:23:09 PM »
So the thought of drinking poppy tea like EVER AGAIN sounds awful to me.  I suffered abdominal pains that were an 8 on the 10 scale right up until 11am this morning.  I puked like hell (green bile....sorry) and this did not even bring slight relief.  The opiods in the tea were effective since I slept much of the time even though the pain persisted.  It was a warm and fuzzy feeling, although I can't see myself getting off of my ass to go to work in that condition.  It would probably just take a few days of adjustment. 

Since poppy tea devistates my tummy I am wondering if the ground up material will do the same.  I have read that the thebaine alkaloid might be responsible.  Others have speculated that mold on the pods could be responsible.  I really don't know, but I do know that I am terrified of poppy tea now.  I am back comfortable on subs as of a couple hours ago.

I have also read that a putty substance containing all of the alks can be yielded via evaporation after straining the tea.  Maybe this is the answer??

Offline Calaquendi

  • cosmic elf
  • Donating Member
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1600
    • View Profile
Re: What to do between stopping suboxone and flood dose??
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2012, 03:17:00 PM »
I am sure there are various extraction methods you could try. GD might be able to help shed some light he has poppy experience. I doubt those symptoms were from mold, sounds just like some of the typical discomfort that some people have with the material. Thebaine could be responsible as you stated. Not sure of a way around that, separating the opiate alks would require some equipment and sophistication that is beyond my skill set.

If it is possible to roll onto a prescription SAO perhaps this is your best bet. Best of luck in any case.
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline roy d

  • Banzi
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Posts: 832
  • Just do the best ya can
    • View Profile
Re: What to do between stopping suboxone and flood dose??
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2012, 05:29:08 PM »

Hi Light,

There is a sweeter called Stevia that may help or may not.  Damn, your so close, ever think for a minute how someone will someday attempt the same thing your trying and not have the resources.  Your so low and yet it is too strong it sounds like something like out of 1984 - you will show up to work, you will obey, long live geroge bush, ect.

It is never too early to go on SAOs I take it is a matter of cash.  Is there any way you can go a Dr and get some opiates.  As Cal said the MS Contin are great for they do not get ya high and they last 12 hours.  I have found that regular 4-6 hour pain meds have you watching the close and waiting and waiting and waiting to take you pill and then ya take it and nothing happens, it's rough.  There are SAOs and pods or maybe, just maybe, you can go on methadone and take as little as possible for a month and save up money to get SAOs and then try the pods.  This is just an idea, not all that good of an idea but there are not that many options. 

You know I have heard a lot of people say they got down to 2mg and could go no lower and there are several people that got down to .5 and could go no lower.  I wonder what would happen if the cops got someone taking 16mg and put them in jail for 30 days,  I know what would happen they would let him suffer.  May I ask if the DR said that you can taper off nice and slow with no problem.  I know a Dr and they do not accept insurance for Sub, cash only, and they cost a lot at the drugstore.  I doubt the Sub Dr will give you any SAOs if your an addict for it is the law they can not give an addict dope to detox but can give Methadone, yeah I know.  If you got the money or insurance you may consider going Dr shopping and you may find a compassionate Dr to help you, hard but possible.

Best to ya Light,

  Roy