Author Topic: Preparation for Iboga session  (Read 7604 times)

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Offline MR T

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Preparation for Iboga session
« on: October 03, 2009, 09:06:41 AM »
  Hi You Beautiful Community :D
      I figured I would start this thread in hopes of just getting some general opinions and advice,thoughts on preparation for-a session? A friend is expecting some in 2 weeks and was asking for Help :-X  Any advice would be fine, and appreciated

  ps dont eat the brown acid :P                                            
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 03:54:17 PM by calaquendi »
Happiness is rooted in misery.
Misery lurks beneath happiness,
who knows what the future holds.
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Offline x

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Re: Preporation for Iboga session
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2009, 05:57:20 PM »
Hey Mr. T!!!

First let me get this out of the way: there are hundreds of people more experienced than I with this. There.

Please pass this on to your friend.

Two sitters is optimum, sitting is actually very tiring. When you know who will be there with you, encourage (or force!) them to do some Iboga research on their own.

If your friend is doing an opiate detox, your sitters will want to be aware that s/he could possibly have some 'breakthrough withdrawals'. If this is the case, they should be prepared to give some more Ibo. Also, they may feel like shit from the ibo alone, exhausted, maybe with heavy emotions running around, and mistake this for w/d. Your friend may think it didn't 'work', when in fact they will likely feel better in a few days to a week.
If your friend can find two weeks vacation, they will be happy they did. One week minimum, and can I say that again? One week minimum, and that still might not be enough to feel competent to handle the daily grind.

Make sure your friend is ABSOLUTELY honest with you about which drugs they are taking, down to antibiotics and vitamins. The day of tx (I was a nurse, that's medical shorthand for treatment) stay off caffeine. Make sure, going by the half life, that the opiates (if opiates) are out of the system. I have a friend who knows far more than I about this, if it's an opiate w/d and you want to know more, let me know, and I will ask about your friends particular situation.

You may want to have xanax on hand, maybe some soma. I've only had experience with the xanax, but what I've heard is that both can help with muscle twitches, anxiety and agitation. I hear those can happen.

Your friend will want to take vitamins, too. I'm sure you've read this already.

You want to start on an empty stomach. It is probable that you will be puking. Get a bucket, the ataxia makes it hard to get to the bathroom.

You may be very sensitive to light and noise, you may want a fan on you, you may want to make a playlist of many hours of music that will be supportive or even driving your experience. A friend of mine listened to *techno* lol. Myself, I like 'space music' all tonal, no drums.
You may become very sensitive to scents.

For me, cleaning my whole house, including windows, was a big deal. It put in my head the tone of renewal, cleaning, refreshing, all that. It was symbolic as well as good smelling.
You will be down for awhile, showering beforehand is a good idea, maybe on many levels.

Make a list of why you are doing Iboga, then be prepared to surrender to the experience.

There's so much more, but there's a beginning.

I am very, very happy for your friend. I know that Iboga can seem so hard to find, and so far away.
Two weeks! Yay!

Love and knuckles,
B

Offline MR T

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Re: Preporation for Iboga session
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2009, 08:42:32 PM »
Thanks Tia   I was just trying to get some general info.cool.I totally agree with you about the ''cleaning' of the house
and the preshower-It defintley add to the rirual like atomsphere at least for psycheldelics  ;D It feels like you are washing away all the neg and and it kinda flattens out your emotions for a minute or 2.(4me),
  That is a good point about the exp cont for a few days weather you know it or not--ie wd :-[ But it s a SMALL price to pay to have a chance at truly attempting to heal your soul and partake in this magical ceromony--Thnx U rock 8)
Happiness is rooted in misery.
Misery lurks beneath happiness,
who knows what the future holds.
LaoTsu-

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Preporation for Iboga session
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2009, 04:53:04 PM »
Hey Mr.T!! Tia gives solid advice, covers pretty much all of the major bases. I have done iboga for opiate addiction and so have some experience here. I will caution you on one point: reading 'too many' reports can 'color' your expectations of the experience, and believe me this can be detrimental if you do not 'get' what you think you should from it. Some people have very little visuals, although personally it was otherwise, this is by no means an indication of 'if it worked' or not. Your prior experiences with psychedelics I think, will be of value here, in that you probably won't balk at any hallucinations that present. Sensitivity to light and especially sound can be expected as Tia said. I recommend total darkness for the deeper parts of the journey.Dark and silent...

Fasting the day of is often advised, but I think it prudent to have perhaps a light breakfast like yogurt, fruit etc. so you've some energy to expend. Stay hydrated. It's not a 'fun' ride by any means, but it is amazing material. Use your body as a guide to know how to dose. For example, you need to be in acute w/d to begin - depending on which opiate one is detoxing from, time required away from opiates varies, methadone being the nastiest and hardest to come off of, but by no means can it hang with the correct dosing of iboga. If you're on a long lasting opiod like methadone give it 24 hours before you dose iboga...again you know how shitty you feel at any given time, wait until you feel so shitty you can't stand it at all - then take a 'test dose'...perhaps a gram of TA or a few hundred mg of ibogaine. This will go to work immediately to attenuate w/d. You won't feel 'satisfied' as you would putting an opiate in you when the jones is bad,but the test dose will ameliorate symptoms. When you begin to feel uncomfortable again,ie> w/d returning or not getting enough 'relief' from the iboga taken, dose up gradually until you 'hit the mark'. This is typically a dose of 15 - 20 mg/kg of body weight.
This is the amount of alkaloids you want 'on board' enough to do the trick. The first thing I noticed, other than relief of w/d was a buzzing/whirring in the ears...I took this as my cue to lay down and let the sitters work. Every hour or hour and a half I was checked on and dosed until the stuff flooded me into trance...I did puke, but not for many hours, not everyone does but it is not at all uncommon.. I remember stretching and rolling about in the bed..not like 'kicking' though, somehow the intuition came to me that this was a part of 'how it works' and that by doing so I was allowing the medicine into the deepest parts of my tissues. I will not regale you with too many details so as not to color the experience when it happens for you, but know that it does work. Be sure of your sitter(s), that they know precisely what's going on and why, and be straight with them about what chemicals are in your body...it is prudent to use small amounts of xanax or valium for comfort during and immediately after the session. You can expect to be 'dizzy' for a bit even when many of the other fx wear off, and it is not uncommon to 'see shit' meaning tracer-like visuals for a few days after, depending in how hard you flood. Some people don't need to take the full 15mg/kg dose, but I recommend it, or get as close as you can. DO NOT for ANY reason use opiates during or immediately (at least a week) after iboga. This, in my opinion, is probably the most dangerous thing one can do and has attributed to some deaths. Iboga works in part, like naloxone, in that it will strip your opiate receptors, cleaning them of all the crap, and so an (opiate) overdose is a real threat following iboga treatment, use a light sedative like a benzodiazepine and/or a muscle relaxer like soma. Expect some insomnia after, this is almost universal, but a hot bath and soothing tunes, even aroma therapy (lavender) can ease this...God bless you dude, you're in my thoughts.
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline MR T

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Re: Preporation for Iboga session
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2009, 07:09:51 AM »
Thanks Cal
  Awesome advice-Yea Tia is solid when it comes to advice and help :D Yea I wasn t sure about when to take it-24 hrs after last opiate-so in full wd in other words.WOW. This stuff must be strong! I can understand when you say reading to many reports kinda of taints the exp. by expecting to much--I m not looking for hallucinations or a good time-I have a feeling this is going to be a rough ride as it should be-If something is going to take me off of opiates ,I can t see it being easy..Hallucinations would just be a bonus :o Honestly Cal I m in so much misery My only expectation is Burn off all the opioids off my receptors and pray I never put them back-Mentally I m  prepared,I have gotten back into my deep breathing excercises in case of to much anxiety and just keep telling myself it s coming and one day hopefully soon, I cant wait for pupils will return to thier normal size instead of these snake eyes: Thanks for the advice once again-
                                                                Grateful and waiting patiently
                                                                        your friend  t
ps I hope you are feeling better, the only thing worse than the flu is the... patriot act:P
Happiness is rooted in misery.
Misery lurks beneath happiness,
who knows what the future holds.
LaoTsu-

Offline x

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Re: Preporation for Iboga session
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2009, 02:25:14 PM »
Hey Mr. T!

Had to reply to one little thing in here.
I've heard from quite a few folk that with a serious opiate w/d, that a full flood in one shot is preferable to a stepped dose.
In other words, do your test, then do the rest, not a little at a time up to your target. Also 15mg/kg is more like psychospiritual dosing, as opposed to opiate w/d dosing.

These are some things you will want to research further, I am certainly not the last word, here.

This is some serious stuff, hate to be a doggie downer, but also think about what would happen were you to die. Contingencies and paperwork, legalities and such.

peace and chum,
T

(edited for privacy)

Offline Psychenaut

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Re: Preporation for Iboga session
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2009, 04:06:32 PM »
Dosing is a variable for different people.  Things like estrogen do seem to play a role in the potency of ibogaine.  I was actually detoxed off of methadone with a 16mg/kg dose fallowed by booster doses on subsequeent days.  I experienced no withdrawal symptoms beyond fatigue.  Meanwhile I was detoxed off of suboxone (4mg) and with 13mg/kg and I came out of that experience kicking and thrashing around from withdrawal and had to take another 8mg/kg right afterwards.

It takes experience to know the difference between ibo fatigue and withdrawal and what to do in a given case to get the person the correct help to get them through it.  There is also the issue of what Iboga does to people after the visionary state.  This can be very odd, ranging from disassociation to anger and violence.. if you don't know what's going on or how to deal with it you can really end up with a problem on your hands.  Ibogaine isn't like a strong acid with slight health risks, especially when you add detox into the mix.  People have control issues and victimology that generally goes along with addiction and this can come out in full force during and after the detox.  Be well aware of what you are getting into.  Though the chances are you will make it through the detox alive and well I think it's important to respect your sitters, they are risking a lot to help you.. it might be a good time to work on trusting someone and seeing past YOURSELF.

James is being passive aggressive and will end this conversation how ;)
I want all 5 stars and a tiara or I'm not playing!!! :p

Offline x

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Re: Preporation for Iboga session
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2009, 04:59:05 PM »
Jaime,

You actually stopped yourself before you got to the passive aggressive part, 'cepting your quote!!!

Well done!!!!  ;)
(That's a big, facetious wink)
Someday you will wear the mantle of your godhood with the appropriate respect and pride.

Love and foodnotbombs
T

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Preporation for Iboga session
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2009, 12:53:49 PM »
Dosing is a variable for different people.  Things like estrogen do seem to play a role in the potency of ibogaine.

That's an excellent point - this is a good thread. Tia is pretty right on with the protocol, most providers will do it this way (for opiate detox), but these are in professional settings with trained medical staff by and large. Dosing an epic flood on your own with no prior experience and uneducated sitters may spell disaster...take care!

Quote
It takes experience to know the difference between ibo fatigue and withdrawal and what to do in a given case to get the person the correct help to get them through it. 

This cannot be understated. Indeed I hazard a guess that many of the deaths linked, unfortunately, to ibogaine come in large part because of this very syndrome: A long time user may have difficulties discerning the fatigue felt after a session from that of 'withdrawals', a great point man. I have seen this, I have gone through it. Being conscious of this prior to a session is important and will help understand what's happening afterward. Again, taking an opiate directly after care is DANGEROUS in the extreme. This is why the benzodiazepine family works so well, it will help smooth out any rough edges and calm the mind. Prudent to use only for short duration.
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Nganga Nobunoni

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Re: Preparation for Iboga session
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2010, 03:42:53 PM »
OK' I must jump in here'

If you have no experience with Iboga or Ibogaine' NO FLOOD DOSE'

Just keep working the dose up over 6-14 hours' max dose 21mg/kg' in any 36 hours'

When they come back low dose em again for the remaider of the 3 days/72 hours for heroin/short acting' usualy 100mg a day HCL or 2 grams Iboga a day is sufficient'

Methadone and subutex !!

If you attempt a flood dose for methadone (unless the dose is really low) this is of what happens'

You shall black out' have to be woken' when you come back you shall be blank' no withdrawal for 5 days' then the bitch withdrawal comes back with a vengance' now you got problems' cos it is very hard to dose someone with Ibogaine once they are running on 12 hydroxy-ibogamine'

It takes 8-10 days for methadone and 6 days for Subutex' so you got to give em enough of a dose initialy to kill the withdrawal then you got to keep going'

This is a specialist job of work'

You need to know of how to read body signs' know of what stage of the Iboga experience the patient is in'
Just dosing Iboga/Ibogaine outside of the molecules bio-cycle is pointless'

Ibogaine has a very short first pass'

You really need someone who can read of what is going on and also knows Iboga/Ibogaine intimately'

For myself' I can see in my psychi of where you are at' at any given point through treatment'

I can feel the Iboga in your pulse' know exactly of how much your body has taken onboard' I know by your reflexe and REM of where you are' even just touching your skin' in certain places I know of how much secondary binding to opiate receptors there is'
It took me many years to learn this'

A personal experience'

I jumped 80mg methadone with a 5x extract' I took 1.1 grams' waited 8 hours plus' then took 4 grams'
Psychicaly I died' I have no recollection of where I was until I was aroused some 3 hours later'

I was blasted for about 12 hours is all after the flood dose' I got up the next day' BLANK' with much white birds flying'

5 days this blank'  lasted with very little discomfort' then day 6-7-8' I got sick' and sicker and sicker' untill I collapsed psychologicaly and physicaly on my bathroom floor' my wife had to feed me tea bread and honey' just to keep me alive'
I lay on my bathroom floor talking and mumbling shit for nearly 4 days' then my wife coaxed me into bed'

I withdrew seriously hard for 25 days' I had to rap my whole body in towels' I sweat profusely' and bent up with cramps and flushing' I lay in the hot bath' lay in bed with hot water bottles' I was so cold from endorphine depletion I could no get out of the quilt or barely stand for 25 days'
So the Iboga gave me 5 days peace' killed the cravings' took away most of the pain' but left me completely full blown withdrawn for a month' completely tripping balls'
to add to this I dropped 70mg of valium' hence the hight I went to on Iboga allowed me sort out a serious amount of psychological stuff'

I believe if it had been any worse I would have actualy died'

NO DO THIS'

NEVER TAKE A FLOOD DOSE FOR LONG ACTING OPIATES' unless the flood dose is only low enough to kill the withdrawal'

Then the protocol is to keep going with a dose that kills the withdrawal from 6-8 days'

If you hit 21mg/kg in 36 hours' then you must wait 72 hours plus all in before low dosing'' otherwise you can cause damage to the cerebelum and olive in the brain' punjike cell death at 25mg/kg'
There is no reason someone would require 21mg/kg in 36 hours to break withdrawal' no matter of how much opiate they are on'
Protocol for methadone is get down to 20ml or less before Iboga initiation' 5-10ml is of what i look for'

Better still no attempt to jump long acting opiates with Iboga therapy'
Kick the methadone or subutex and go short acting for at least 2 weeks' then all of this crazyness is no nessesary'

6mg for Subutex'

Protocol for Subutex is the same as methadone' but seeing as it is only a half agonist' you no have to push so hard'

This is a most serious undertaking'

Seek someone who knows this stuff'

Be Safe'

Nganga Nobunoni +

Nganga Nobunoni

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Re: Preparation for Iboga session
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2010, 03:52:02 PM »
NEVER TAKE AN OPIATE AFTER INGESTION OF IBOGA'

IBOGA ALKS SECONDARY BIND TO OPIATE RECEPTORS' HENCE YOU TAKE AN OPIATE AFTER IBOGA THERAPY' ALL YOU ARE DOING IS TOPPING UP'
YOU SHALL OD' OR HAVE A HEART ATTACK !!

FOLKS HAVE DIED FROM TAKING OPIATES AND IBOGA/IBOGAINE'

NO DO IT'

BE SAFE'

GET EDUCATED BEFORE AND LEARN OF WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN THROUGH IBOGA THERAPY'

IF YOU WISH TO KNOW OF HOW IBOGA/IBOGAINE WORKS' READ THE LITURATURE PAGE ON MY SITE'

www.iboga.co.uk

Basse'

Nganga Nobunoni +

Offline x

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Re: Preparation for Iboga session
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2010, 01:17:03 AM »
for balance, I want to say that I took a flood dose with an inexperienced sitter and on just the knowledge I got from reading. it was a beautiful experience.  Also for balance, I have exceeded 21 mgkg in 36 hours with people with excellent effects.
Lordy, Nobu, you speak as if your way is the only way, leaving no room for intuition and dismissing out of hand good hard years of science. There are many ways to bring Iboga to people. We learn new ways and methods all the time.  I'm glad you're here.
On preparation for Iboga session, I have had profound results from talking to a tree immediately beforehand. :D

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Preparation for Iboga session
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2010, 11:27:10 PM »
I think intuition plays a major role in iboga work. For me it has been a compass in many different experiences and it becomes more like a skill as time goes on. Intuition is interactive and it helps us see those things which are obscured otherwise. One of the things I am learning is to trust my intuitions, and working to build a relationship with iboga has shown me a lot about this process  :)
" I am you and what I see is me..."