Author Topic: Here we go  (Read 8745 times)

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Offline Birdcatcher

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Here we go
« on: August 30, 2012, 07:54:30 PM »
I guess its appropriate at this point to start my journal mainly so I can organize everything and as a presentation for input from the group here. This is some of my history from a previous post  http://eboka.info/index.php?topic=1588.0
things I need to do are as follows-
-determine a date for the treatment to begin (could be as long as a year from now but as soon as possible)
-set the schedule for tapering off of Buprenorphine. I take 4mg a day
-determine wether I will self administer or fly far away. I am in the US
-Determine a safe way to obtain it for be self administered (preffered) if one exists
-Become educated in general and on the different flavors of Iboga i.e. TA, Ibogaine, bark, Hcl, etc
-Determine which one (one's) I will use and how much/often
-Excersise and get in the best shape I can. I am already working on this.
-Correct/treat some minor medical issues. Already working on this too.
-prepare for, organize, schedule, any medical procedures that are necessary. EKG EEG??? dont remember the one. ensure good health overall
- prepare financially (long vacation)
What am I missing??? I am in a good place as far as lifestyle goes to stay sober afterward. Its been quite a while since I have used anything other than the Bupe. I dont associate with the people or the environment related to drug use (Although I mostly used alone). I am very well educated when it comes to recovery. As Ive stated before. This approach isnt a passing fancy. It may take some time and some suffering but I believe 100% this is the best and only realistic way for me to  become totally drug free and to treat the root cause of m addiction. I feel the Iboga was made for me. I feel it in my heart. I want the old Birdcatcher back and so does my family. i want to rid the 80% emotional supression the bupe has taken. I want to get that feeling I used to get when I listened to music with my eyes closed, I want to feel the euphoria and love for life I used to feel. I want to shit like a normal person (Bupe=constipation) I want a hardon without having to worry if it will last or have to take a bonner pill (although they can be fun). 42 years old. lifes a little past the half way point. The rest of it can be the best half and i want it to be.....bad. Let the journey begin
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 10:48:25 PM by Birdcatcher »

Offline lightswitchedon

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2012, 05:40:30 AM »
Suggest a healthy diet.  It took me about a year before I really had changed to a pretty optimal diet and I am still there.  This type of change lasts.

Also, I would suggest getting that dose low (as you said) and switching to a short acting opiate for at least a few months before flooding.

This is just what I have learned from the many other experiences I've read, barring my own.

Sounds like you have the patience part down.  I was on bupe and involved in NA for 3 years all the while tapering and not touching anything else.  Went from 32mg - .625mg over those years, however in retrospect I would've been off the bupe for prob 5 months (on SAO like morphine or poppy pods) before attempting a flood.  This stuff is unlike any other opiate.

Offline Birdcatcher

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2012, 11:45:40 AM »
were you stable at .625mg with no w/d and did you function well on the SAO. If you've already wrote about that a link would suffice. Currently I am trying to figure out if it matters at which dose of sub I switch to SAO i.e. is there much difference between junping from 2mg or .625 to SAO for X months before Iboga and also the effects of fat cell and Bupe storage. A BMI calculator says I'm midrange over weight which means I could rid about 1/4 of my current body weight (scary thought). 

I am totally with ya on the diet/excercise thing.

I only have patience from the standpoint that I have got to make this work so the time it takes to prepare the best I can is what matters.

Offline lightswitchedon

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2012, 03:46:21 PM »
were you stable at .625mg with no w/d and did you function well on the SAO.

Yes and Yes.  The transition was easy and I actually felt high on the poppy pods some of the time.  Tolerance didn't even develop, only a little after 5 weeks.

Currently I am trying to figure out if it matters at which dose of sub I switch to SAO i.e. is there much difference between junping from 2mg or .625 to SAO for X months before Iboga

Depends on whether or not you have enough SAOs to cover you.  I needed about 10-12g poppy pods per day.  You would need more.  Then there is always morphine.  I think you can roll over at 2mg no problem.  ready2stop rolled over at 4mg.

Offline Birdcatcher

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2012, 10:50:08 PM »
So I go in to see my sub doc a few days ago and tell him I have gone from 4-2mg over the last month and he tells me "ok now take 3 halfs (3mg) a day and we will stay there for a couple months" WTF!!!! last time I saw him he said he was gonna have me off this by Christmas (which is close to my target). This guys nuts. Atleast I will be able to drop my last visit with him and have enough sub to carry me to the SAO phase. Maybe he realized thats too soon to let go of my $150/month or maybe he's just wacked

Offline ready2stop

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2012, 09:40:42 AM »
So I go in to see my sub doc a few days ago and tell him I have gone from 4-2mg over the last month and he tells me "ok now take 3 halfs (3mg) a day and we will stay there for a couple months" WTF!!!! last time I saw him he said he was gonna have me off this by Christmas (which is close to my target). This guys nuts. Atleast I will be able to drop my last visit with him and have enough sub to carry me to the SAO phase. Maybe he realized thats too soon to let go of my $150/month or maybe he's just wacked

If you are able to get morphine prescribed sooner vs. later and get it prescribed for at least 3 - 6 months, I would suggest getting off of suboxone as quickly as possible.  I transitioned from 4 mg of subox to 45 - 60mg a day of morphine sulfate seamlessly.   I started to get withdrawal symptoms and anxiety about 36 - 48 hours after my last dose of suboxone, but on day 3 post-subox, I took 60mg of morphine and felt like I was good as new.  It was unbelievably easy and comfortable.   It only took about a week before I was able to get down to 45 mg a day and basically stayed there for the final 4 weeks prior to the flood.    Also, just as an fyi, I did try during the last week (so week 5) to "get high" by taking bout 75 - 90mg of morphine + a couple 10mg hydros too - hoping to experience that last high ever before my flood - but I got absolutely nothing.  I mean zero euphoric feeling whatsoever.   I can't help but think this was due to long-term suboxone usage.  The Longer you can be on morphine or some other SAO prior to your Ibogaine Hcl flood, the better IMHO.     Good luck!     
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 09:51:38 AM by ready2stop »

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2012, 02:52:47 PM »
Keep the doc on your side, but follow your own body's messages.  If you can reduce faster, go ahead, and keep the extra meds, like you were thinking, so you can be sure not to cut yourself off before you're totally ready.  I know when planning to get clean, you need a good deal of time to yourself to recover, and sometimes things happen which delay our desires.  So, this way you'll be sure to have the doctor all the way up until you are for sure going to flood.  I waited until after I flooded and was feeling better to go tell my doctor/counselors I no longer needed their help.  It's always nice to have something to fall back on, just in case..
GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

Offline Birdcatcher

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2012, 06:16:39 PM »
RTS, as of now I am planing to get down to .5mg of sub and then do the pods. I dont think I can get my hands on morphine or I would use your approach to expedite this process. I was going to tell my doc about my plan with Iboga but didnt feel the time was right or maybe I just chickened out. there is a possibility he might be able to help with the morph but he has got himself in a lot of shit lately (he's a bit of a rebel) so I'm doubting it. I also think he would make a good sitter if I self administer so I'm trying to plan how I will lay all this on him. How did you get morphine?
GD. good point on keeping him for back up, etc.. I'll take your advice. unexpected things could happen and I dont want to get in a pickle. If I decide to go to a treatment center I wont be able to afford it till March of next year (spouses bonus) and even if I self administer with a sitter march is still the earliest but I got to get to the SAO's ASAP without sub taper knocking me down too bad. March is really only a target date because the criteria that must be met first are getting lean and healthy, 3 months absolute minimum on SAO's and undertanding and feeling more comfortable with Iboga much better than I do now. If it ends up being late next year than so be it. Nothing will be rushed. I want to do all the things we think need to be done for "Iboga after sub" to be effective. Overall I still have things to sort out and the advice here is helping. Thanks

Offline ready2stop

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2012, 07:12:37 PM »
I went into my primary care doctor (with my wife, who is also a patient of the same doc) and let her know that I had been on sub for 4+ years and did not tell her about it because I was embarrassed about being dependent on narcotics AND I was afraid she would not prescribe me the other meds she had been prescribing for my negative side effects associated with the subxone - ambien for insomnia, xanax for anxiety, some other med for headaches and then she was also prescribing me Valium for my original injury that started my opiate dependency - two herniated discs in my neck.    I told her those things, but that I really wanted to get off suboxone because of those negative side-effects, plus MANY more side-effects too - such as horrible constipation, not being able to pee when I needed to, zero libido, premature ejaculation when I actually did wanna have sex, and major irritability about the stupidest shit.  It was causing major problems for me with my wife and my job - as I would get short sometimes with lawyers and Judges at work...  not good, not good at all.    I also told her that I had tried once to get off suboxone cold turkey and I went crazy and had suicidal thoughts - which were all true.   Then I said, but "I think I may have found a semi-cure or at least a drug that may give me a window of little to no withdrawal symptoms - Ibogaine."   I had 4 pages of various documentation of Ibogaine's efficacy and research from the Doctor at the University of Miami.  I also let her know I talked with many providers and they all said I needed to be off of suboxone for at least 5 weeks or they would not treat me...  and the providers recommended at least 60 mg of morphine sulfate to ward off withdrawal symptoms prior to Ibogaine.    She was a little taken back at first and overwhelmed, as she had never heard of Ibogaine, nor suboxone.   I just kept stressing that "I really need your help" and "I believe I can get off of all these other medications your prescribing if I get off of suboxone", other than the Valium for muscle spasms when my neck condition is exacerbated.   I was right about that one, as I've been off all those other meds since stopping suboxone.   I've been taking the valium to help me sleep though, instead of the aforementioned Ambien.   My body tells me that valium is not as bad for my brain as ambien, but that's just me.   Anyway, she said let me read all this info you've given me and do a little homework on my own and I'll call you in a couple days.   Well she ended up calling the Ibogaine provider and read a lot of info on suboxone/Ibogaine.   Then she called a few days later and said come on in and I'll write you the script...   and she said, "I can't believe all these doctors are just substituting one opiate for another.  These longer acting opiates are much worse".    That's how it went down.   I just wish I would've taken your approach Bird and taken much more time off of sub prior to Ibo (at least 3-6 mos) and I would've taken at least 3 weeks off work after Ibo.    Hindsight is 20/20 though.   I'm just glad my experiences may be able to assist another in getting off of suboxone.

Offline Birdcatcher

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2012, 09:12:13 PM »
Thank you for taking the time to reply. I appreciate it. I havent been to my PCP since starting sub. I always had my sub doc treat whatever minor issues I had along the way. My PCP is an internalist and I may go see him about this using your approach. its worth a shot.
I wish I didnt have to learn from your ( and others here) experience and feel quilty knowing I am learning while you're feeling like crap. I am going in to this knowing there are no gaurantees though. we may find one needs 8 months off sub for the Iboga to work correctly. i havent been able to find 1 case where the person said "I went 4 months between sub and Iboga and it worked great". Atleast no one with similar circumstances. We will eventually get some kind of idea for comparison between us. Unfortunatley it will be some time before we know how it worked for me but I'm well on my way. I wish you the best in getting back to your old self soon. Your still vertical after work today so thats a good sign  :)

Offline ready2stop

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2012, 09:22:19 PM »
Excellent.  I like your approach of no rushing anything.  Good luck!    :)

Offline lightswitchedon

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2012, 08:50:11 AM »
I personally could care less about why iboga doesn't work well for sub users and more about what is so different about sub that it is so difficult to recover from.  It is not as simple as "well bupe binds so tightly to the receptors".  BS - there is more to it and I would like to know what that is.  I think I am going to start writing R&B until I piss them off.  Sub is becoming protocol and touted as an opiate addiction cure >:( and we need to understand it better....SOON.  Who knows what the long-term effects of this drug are.

I will get blocked and get the runaround from R&B, but then I will compile research (if others are willing to help), put that shit in a book and get it out there for all to see.  What happened to the days of the ativan and clonidine detox?  Worked just fine for many who came before me.

Sub is very, very difficult to get off of.  In retrospect, I would've rather tapered my methadone dose 1 mg per week and told them not to give me take homes.  I would've gotten clean and felt alright much faster.  When I switched to sub in 2008 my methadone dose was 80mg, granted I was highly uncomfortable at that dose, but I was managing.

This recovery is a process, we have to take the help we can get (sometimes substances, prescriptions for short-term), but try not to substitute one addiction for another.  That is why NA is so important to me.  It keeps my addiction in check.

Birdcatcher - get away from sub as long as possible before doing the iboga.  Some may say 2 months is enough, disregard that.  How could it hurt to wait 4-6 months and give your brain more time to recover.  You can maintain on pods or morphine for that long quite easily if you are determined and communicating through these boards.

Offline ready2stop

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2012, 09:32:11 AM »
I personally could care less about why iboga doesn't work well for sub users and more about what is so different about sub that it is so difficult to recover from.  It is not as simple as "well bupe binds so tightly to the receptors".  BS - there is more to it and I would like to know what that is.  I think I am going to start writing R&B until I piss them off.  Sub is becoming protocol and touted as an opiate addiction cure >:( and we need to understand it better....SOON.  Who knows what the long-term effects of this drug are.

I will get blocked and get the runaround from R&B, but then I will compile research (if others are willing to help), put that shit in a book and get it out there for all to see.  What happened to the days of the ativan and clonidine detox?  Worked just fine for many who came before me.

Sub is very, very difficult to get off of.  In retrospect, I would've rather tapered my methadone dose 1 mg per week and told them not to give me take homes.  I would've gotten clean and felt alright much faster.  When I switched to sub in 2008 my methadone dose was 80mg, granted I was highly uncomfortable at that dose, but I was managing.

This recovery is a process, we have to take the help we can get (sometimes substances, prescriptions for short-term), but try not to substitute one addiction for another.  That is why NA is so important to me.  It keeps my addiction in check.

Birdcatcher - get away from sub as long as possible before doing the iboga.  Some may say 2 months is enough, disregard that.  How could it hurt to wait 4-6 months and give your brain more time to recover.  You can maintain on pods or morphine for that long quite easily if you are determined and communicating through these boards.

Right on brother.  I'm with you on all counts.  BTW - who is this "R&B" you allude to?? 

 

Offline lightswitchedon

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2012, 10:19:32 AM »
Suboxone is made by the manufacturers called Reckitt Benckiser
Pharmaceuticals Inc.

Maybe it should be RB, but then people would think I am talking about root bark. ;)

Offline Birdcatcher

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2012, 08:34:10 PM »
I personally could care less about why iboga doesn't work well for sub users and more about what is so different about sub that it is so difficult to recover from.  It is not as simple as "well bupe binds so tightly to the receptors".  BS - there is more to it and I would like to know what that is.  I think I am going to start writing R&B until I piss them off.  Sub is becoming protocol and touted as an opiate addiction cure >:( and we need to understand it better....SOON.  Who knows what the long-term effects of this drug are.

I will get blocked and get the runaround from R&B, but then I will compile research (if others are willing to help), put that shit in a book and get it out there for all to see.  What happened to the days of the ativan and clonidine detox?  Worked just fine for many who came before me.

Sub is very, very difficult to get off of.  In retrospect, I would've rather tapered my methadone dose 1 mg per week and told them not to give me take homes.  I would've gotten clean and felt alright much faster.  When I switched to sub in 2008 my methadone dose was 80mg, granted I was highly uncomfortable at that dose, but I was managing.

This recovery is a process, we have to take the help we can get (sometimes substances, prescriptions for short-term), but try not to substitute one addiction for another.  That is why NA is so important to me.  It keeps my addiction in check.

Birdcatcher - get away from sub as long as possible before doing the iboga.  Some may say 2 months is enough, disregard that.  How could it hurt to wait 4-6 months and give your brain more time to recover.  You can maintain on pods or morphine for that long quite easily if you are determined and communicating through these boards.
Light your gettin my blood boiling. lets go get the SOB's  >:(. As big of an epidemic as this shits becoming I wouldnt doubt the government is in on it. We go attacking them (verbally) and men in black suites might show up at are door LOL.

It is ingraned in my head. I am going to go the for the long term on SAO's atleast!!!! 4 months. Longer if I am functioning well. I dont want to fu^( this up. If 4+ months doesnt work the next poor soul can go longer.