Author Topic: Here we go  (Read 8591 times)

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Offline ready2stop

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2012, 08:51:22 PM »
I personally could care less about why iboga doesn't work well for sub users and more about what is so different about sub that it is so difficult to recover from.  It is not as simple as "well bupe binds so tightly to the receptors".  BS - there is more to it and I would like to know what that is.  I think I am going to start writing R&B until I piss them off.  Sub is becoming protocol and touted as an opiate addiction cure >:( and we need to understand it better....SOON.  Who knows what the long-term effects of this drug are.

I will get blocked and get the runaround from R&B, but then I will compile research (if others are willing to help), put that shit in a book and get it out there for all to see.  What happened to the days of the ativan and clonidine detox?  Worked just fine for many who came before me.

Sub is very, very difficult to get off of.  In retrospect, I would've rather tapered my methadone dose 1 mg per week and told them not to give me take homes.  I would've gotten clean and felt alright much faster.  When I switched to sub in 2008 my methadone dose was 80mg, granted I was highly uncomfortable at that dose, but I was managing.

This recovery is a process, we have to take the help we can get (sometimes substances, prescriptions for short-term), but try not to substitute one addiction for another.  That is why NA is so important to me.  It keeps my addiction in check.

Birdcatcher - get away from sub as long as possible before doing the iboga.  Some may say 2 months is enough, disregard that.  How could it hurt to wait 4-6 months and give your brain more time to recover.  You can maintain on pods or morphine for that long quite easily if you are determined and communicating through these boards.
Light your gettin my blood boiling. lets go get the SOB's  >:(. As big of an epidemic as this shits becoming I wouldnt doubt the government is in on it. We go attacking them (verbally) and men in black suites might show up at are door LOL.

It is ingraned in my head. I am going to go the for the long term on SAO's atleast!!!! 4 months. Longer if I am functioning well. I dont want to fu^( this up. If 4+ months doesnt work the next poor soul can go longer.

We are all in this together.  Hopefully, those who come after us, who are trying to quit sub, will suffer less because of our experiences and posts.

Offline Birdcatcher

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2012, 02:47:37 PM »
Well just a little update to keep the journal going..............
Over all I am doing well. excersise is consistant, getting enough sleep, diet is consistant except for the weekends when I tend to "let loose" a little, and I am consistantly working on my entire recovery including expanding my knowledge of Iboga. Even hitting a NA meeting here and there. I know recovery inside and out (have'nt mastered it LOL) but going to the meetings is helping me to keep it fresh in my mind. I got away from meetings over the years because I thought they where a waste of time for me. wrong again.

 Routine seems to be the key to my progress so far. I was never big on routine before but the structure is making all the things I am doing fall in to place. my only problem, and its a big one, is I have been reluctant to reduce my sub dose further. I keep putting it off only because I have been feeling so damn good the last week or so. I am going to try a different method of taper. I was making a reduction, becoming adjusted then another reduction. I am trying to figure out the math and metering but I plan to do a liguid taper where I disolve the sub in to water then reduce the dose by a very small amouny every day (.02 mg/ day). if I experience too much discomfort I will hold for a few days. I'm thinking this process will better align with my "routine/consistancy" theory. Even though I have time goals for all this it is not the most important, Progress, and ultimatly success, is the only things I will make damn sure I dont let fail.

Offline Birdcatcher

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2012, 08:44:47 PM »
October update-
Everything is pretty much the same as my last post above i.e. stable. Since then my doctor and I briefly discussed my departure from sub. Certain circumstances meant my last visit with him was pretty short and was only able to get minimal information from him. We did discuss continueing my taper and in late January he said we would be using a certain medication to detox from the sub. This pushes my original time frame back a little but how I will be tapering to detox will be more comfortable. no worries. its more important its all done right. not fast. I look forward to finding out more about this detox he has in mind on my next visit. I have yet to let him in on the Iboga plans but am confident he will be somewhat understanding if not completly on board. My wife is growing a poppy field in the back yard to see what we can yield from our own crop. Hopefully the detox will mean minimal poppies needed per day. I guess i could go clean for the 4 months between sub and Iboga but what ever will ensure stability will be the dictator. Less speculation and more facts on my next update.

Offline lightswitchedon

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #18 on: October 22, 2012, 09:30:29 AM »
I am curious what your doc plans on using for your detox?  I have a ton of knowledge and experience with this sub thing and please bounce your ideas off of myself, R2S and the others, we may prove invaluable in your quest.  I am now clean clean clean for real after struggling for several months post sub.  Benzos, cannabis and a little bout with alcohol.

It took 4 months for my endorphins to start kicking in with regularity and that is with a healthy diet (compared to 90% of people), lots of exercise and tai chi.  I can say with certainty that my system is back online and my only struggle is waking up really early in the morning, like 4am sometimes.  I feel like crap, but it subsides after a couple of hours and a small cup of coffee.

I am definitely a case of one coming off of sub who can say "If I can do it, anyone can."  You probably know this already, but Romeo and some others over on the sub forum have some great experience.  For the iboga part, that is all here, but there is WAY more to it and I know you know that.  In fact, if I recall right I've seen you on that forum.

I have said it before and I will say it again....other than the things mentioned above, there are several things that have propelled me to a quick recovery (relatively speaking) and it goes in this order for me.

1.  NA and loving support from friends in there (I have my most spiritual experiences when I break down and open up with someone "in the rooms", my aura turns green (I see them often) which is healing and I feel on top of the world.  It is the honesty and surrender that just magically transforms me.  Human (spirit) being to human (spirit) being....there is no better way of healing imo.
2.  Kambo - without a doubt a Godsend.  Cleansing in so many ways.
3.  Music - OMG, I can't believe how much this jumpstarts the endorphins, serotonin, etc.
4.  Routine - Sometimes it sucks, but it helps so much to be in a routine with work, meetings, working out, reading etc.

I am pulling for you big time and you are wise and correct to say "its more important its all done right.  not fast."  True dat!

Offline Birdcatcher

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2012, 08:37:54 PM »
thanks for the comments Light. I am on the right track but still have a lot to do mentally and physically. I know you guys know first hand alot of the experiences I will be facing in the future and I will definetly be drawing off of that. I have set some pretty high goals for myself. Mainly no relapsing. I have been up and down this road so many times (first time with opiates). I have known how to keep clean for a long time but would always make the choice, after subsconcious coercion to use. I think I have a pretty good idea how to be succesful this time and I am counting on Iboga to help tie the knot. The big factor is that "hole". everything else is pretty easy for me.
I will definetly share what meds/process my doc plans on using once I find out. He laid the detox thing on me as I was walking out the door so I didnt get a chance to get details. He told me a while back he will not prescribe benzos so I dont expect that to be a part of it. Middle of next month I see him again. The good thing is (maybe) is that he is one of the docs responsible for getting the sub clinics going in this part of the state so he is no stranger to getting people off the shit. He is also an addict and claims to be an addictionoligist. The guy is definetly a rebel. I feel devine intervention, or maybe the Iboga spirit sent me to him. I have more confidence in him than my last doc that took the 8 hour course and started writing sub scrips.
Yes I frequent the sub board but am having a hard time restraining myself over there. Sick and tired of the regulars touting sub as being some wonderful thing without presenting the world of shit one is getting themselves into. "stay on it as long as you think you need to" of ya, thats a big fuckin mistake. Definetly some good guys over there though like Romeo, DOaC and a few others

Offline buck36

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2012, 04:23:53 PM »
Hi Bird... Can you please direct me to this "Sub Board" that you mention? I have a friend who recently started on sub for an Oxy habit... I fear for her and want her to educate herself on what she is getting herself into. Thanks!

Offline Birdcatcher

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2012, 01:14:19 AM »
here it is buck http://suboxforum.com/index.php please pass my opinion along to your friend also. although there is alot of useful info over on that board its highly unlikely they will read something like this- I believe sub can be benificial as a short term (like 2-3months) transition drug in some cases mainly where the addict is new at the whole addiction thing (not a seasoned veteran) or when the addict can not afford the time it takes for the detox process from oxy immediatly after the damage caused by the base addiction (need to keep working, going to school, etc). one of the biggest issues I see with sub is the addict gets on it, feels great, makes progress in life and recovery (even though it seems to be more compliance than actual hardcore recovery) then, at some point, realizes they have become physically and psyhcologically dependent on it. At this point if their doctor isnt game for long term maintenence they start doc hoping. Yes they may not get as high on it as oxy but the use/reward issue exists and it is essentially the same as the previous addiction without quite as many negative effects. The addict still finds themselves seeking their "fix" daily or they will get sick. before long a year 2 or 3 passes and the hook is in deep. now instead of it taking a month or 2 to recover from the oxy they are in for many months, atleast one I have heard as long as a year, of post acute withdraw, anxiety, depression, etc. From my understanding at this point the lengthy recovery is due largely in part to the long term use/ storage of bupe in the fat and muscle. Of course a neuro train wreck too. There appears to be marginally effective means of combating the long recovery time with intense detox but I havent found a long term success story on that yet. then, of course there's Iboga and we are in the process of trying to sort that one out but still no free ride but maybe our best hope (I pray). Conversly, there appears to be numerous success stories of people that used sub short term and were able to get off it with minimal torture but even that information is sparse mainly because it appears these people have gone on with their lives and no longer frequent the boards or maybe relapsed and still using. this is my opinion and my observations/interpretations from almost 4 years of being in the thick of it and a lifetime of addiction. please send your friend my best wishes.

Offline lightswitchedon

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2012, 08:38:45 AM »
It is generally agreed by doctors who are anti sub maintenance and pro sub detox that 21 days is the max that it should be used.  Many rehab facilities follow this method, although not everyone needs the full 21 days.  Professionals taper throughout that period depending on the needs of the individual.

For me, I walked into a doctor's office trying to get off of methadone and it was basically like "here is 32mg per day (max dose), figure out your dosing and we will get you off of this stuff pain free in no time."  BS, it took about 4 long years of patiently tapering before I PAINFULLY came off of the stuff.  In retrospect, it would've been much easier to ride out oxy withdrawals...recovery time is much faster.

I am not going to complain.  Now I have invaluable experience to share and there was a time when I though that I would be on methadone for the rest of my life.  I do however feel that people who are about to start suboxone need to know exactly what it is that they are getting into.

Offline ready2stop

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2012, 08:40:41 AM »
Hi Bird... Can you please direct me to this "Sub Board" that you mention? I have a friend who recently started on sub for an Oxy habit... I fear for her and want her to educate herself on what she is getting herself into. Thanks!

Here's another one that helped me too:

http://www.subsux.com

Offline ready2stop

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Re: Here we go
« Reply #24 on: March 09, 2014, 05:32:23 PM »
It is generally agreed by doctors who are anti sub maintenance and pro sub detox that 21 days is the max that it should be used.  Many rehab facilities follow this method, although not everyone needs the full 21 days.  Professionals taper throughout that period depending on the needs of the individual.

For me, I walked into a doctor's office trying to get off of methadone and it was basically like "here is 32mg per day (max dose), figure out your dosing and we will get you off of this stuff pain free in no time."  BS, it took about 4 long years of patiently tapering before I PAINFULLY came off of the stuff.  In retrospect, it would've been much easier to ride out oxy withdrawals...recovery time is much faster.

I am not going to complain.  Now I have invaluable experience to share and there was a time when I though that I would be on methadone for the rest of my life.  I do however feel that people who are about to start suboxone need to know exactly what it is that they are getting into.

I agree 100% LightSwitch.  I've now been sub-free since 12/12/12.  I believe the Ibogaine did something to my brain to make me not get high or feel any euphoric feelings from narcotics (hydro/oxy).  Don't know how or why, but I'm grateful.