Topic: Calea Zacatechichi(Dream Herb Experience)

[fallout330]

Hey Guys,

Just wanted to share with you my personal first time experience with Calea Zacatechichi(Dream Herb).  I ordered this unique plant foliage from BouncingBearBotanicals.com for about $10 or so.  Last night I decided to steep the foliage, about 2 ounces, in 16oz of water for about 20 minutes.  The ending result was an extremely bitter light green liquid that proved to be a bit of a task to consume.  I realize the ideal way of consuming this would be either smoking or putting it in empty gel caps to swallow.  I can compare the taste to wormwood, although this one seemed more noticeable.  It also reminded me of drinking straight vodka shots....which can be a bit uncomfortable if one is not used to it.  In the time frame of about 1 hour, I consumed almost 16oz worth of this "tasty" tea and waited about 1 hour before going to bed.  During this 1 hour period I noticed a lightly relaxing sensation, similar to Valerian, Chamomile or Kava Kava.  As I was laying in bed falling asleep I noticed a light increase in flowing thoughts and barely noticeable images in my head.  I would say it took about 5 minutes to fall asleep for the evening.  The dreams I had that evening were much more vivid and involving that usual.  The dreams that night were mostly about everyday events with a mixture of strangeness.  The one theme that seemed to be integrated throughout the night was family, either my wife or daughter was involved.  I think I focused on them due to how vital they are in giving me purpose and direction at this time......not that they would ever cease to provide this, but currently this is where my main focus has been.  Most dreams where easy to recall as I woke up this morning, compared to forgetting most by waking hours.  What it seems is if this plant stimulates REM activity possibly, whether for meaning dreaming or just chaotic and strange  dreaming. 

In the end I have to say there was a very noticeable effect for myself.  I surely will be giving this one a try, but maybe in an alternate way of consumption .

Peace Guys and Girls

[Calaquendi]

Pretty interesting man. I have some Silene capensis (African dream root) on the way, we'll have to compare notes. I have yet to try Calea but probably will do so in the future. I'm interested in your hypothesis about how the herb may affect REM sleep, I've made a loose study of sleep and the differences in sleep - states, just an anecdotal glancing and curiosity. I will say here that in the days following my iboga session, I had many dreams which were closer to truly lucid than ever before. This is an interesting topic. So many cultures place importance on their dreams, and seek guidance therein. What must it be like to be able to lucid dream at will? That kind of 'control' is elusive to me as it is to many, but imagine where one could go with this skill! I think I would astral project to Amsterdam, but I'd be scared I would get too high to wake up...

Good thread, I think herbs like this just 'fit' well with a post iboga session. I'll be watching this! Thanks...

[fallout330]

Hey Cal,

Yeah I would be very interesting to experience Silene Capensis, from what I hear it may have a more stronger, noticeable effect....interesting, would like to hear if you happen to experience anything with Silene.  I always thought lucid dreaming was amazing.  A few times in the past I've only been able to stay lucid for what "seemed" like a few seconds and then I am totally immersed in the dream and loose lucidity.  Long term Lucid dreaming would be pretty amazing, and I hear that this can be attained with enough practice and the right tools.  I don't know if all dreams have "meaning" to them, some are so strange and chaotic that it seems like just random data flowing though your head.     Then again maybe there are messages that are just too complex to interpret........nonetheless vivid dreams can be very interesting and therapeutic it seems.  I'm starting to assume that Iboga has more similarities to Silene and Calea than to the traditional psychedelic(LSD, Mushrooms, DMT...etc)....correct me if I'm wrong Cal....I have yet to experience Iboga.

Thanks,

[Calaquendi]

I really can't say from experience as I have yet to try either Silene or Calea, and I'm far from an authority on iboga, though I've done it several times. Still, I think your insight is correct and these 'dream herbs' have more intrinsically in common with iboga than traditional psychedelics. One exception may be DMT, in that it seems to somehow correlate to REM sleep. In several smoked DMT sessions I have found my eyes rolling in their sockets involuntarily (nystigmus) and on more than one occasion I've felt the same 'frozen' but lucid perceptions that I've experienced during rare bouts of 'sleep paralysis'...

I think iboga and ibogaine could more appropriately be called 'oneirogenic' or dream creating than 'psychedelic'. Although visions and visuals are common they are not like the visuals produced by ayahuasca and/or mescaline containing cacti. If I were to compare iboga to either of these it more closely resembles ayahuasca but it's still a far cry from it qualitatively. It seems very dream like, I have not experienced anything from the plant kingdom quite like iboga. Using these herbs to help integrate vision/insights following a session may be useful.

However there seems to me an inherent danger in dream interpretation, because as you noted, dreams can be so bizarre and just flat out crazy. It may be hard to tell 'whats what' if you will, in the realm of nocturnal visions - this is where a shaman would come in handy!

Hopefully I'll have my hands on some of these herbs soon and begin my own adventures with them. Perhaps lucid dreaming is not as 'weird' as typical dreaming, in that you have an element of control over things...we'll see! 

[fallout330]

Interesting points there Cal.  One specifically is Sleep Paralysis, which I have experienced, "lightly" a few time in the past.  It is a very strange state to be in, especially when you feel trapped in it.  I can remember on a few occasions having what seemed like a dream of the actual room I was sleeping in, although it usually seemed darker in lighting and there's usually a sense of "someone else" being there when I'm actually alone.  Sleep paralysis is an interesting state which may correlate to some "psychedelic" states, at least temporarily.  I've never experienced any alien abduction or demon presence type sleep paralysis episodes like some have, but it was very unique nonetheless.  Ayahuasca and mescaline are another two that I have yet to try as well, so I'm open to any info. on these two.......I hear Ayahuasca can be a harsh experience physically, if nothing else.

Take Care Cal

[Eon T McKnight]

Hiya Fallout!

I have never tried either Calea or Silene, so I can't comment on them.

If you're interested in pharmaceuticals for promoting lucid dreaming, I can recommend three:  Hydergine, nicergoline and tianeptene/Stablon.  Hydergine and nicergoline are semi-synthetic ergot alkaloids (as is LSD, I'm sure you know).  Tianeptene is a Selective Serotonin Reuptake ENHANCER prescribed for depression and irritable bowel condition (serotonin is also found in the gut and is associated with peristaltic action).

Both Hydergine and nicergoline are prescribed for senile dementia and are said to increase the cerebral blood flow by expanding/relaxing capillaries, as I recall.  Both are also touted as nootropics.

After taking Hydergine before retiring, I had one particularly vivid dream in which I received a particular letter in the mail that turned out to be prescient.  In the dream I opened the mailbox and saw the return address.  That next day, I did the exact same thing in 'real life' and experienced a deja vu sensation.  Hence, I have come to suspect that at least some deja vu experiences are the recollection of scenes viewed while dreaming.

That implies that everyone who has ever had a deja vu experience has 'seen into the future'.  That they, and probably all of us, have clairvoyant abilities.  And, those clairvoyant abilities are not actually dormant, they are functional, they are functioning, we just fail to recognize them.

As to how one can tell the difference between important dream visions and the jumbled psycho-babble that surrounds them, I will give you the secret:  they are the important ones.

HAHA yeah yeah.  Seriously though, that really is the best answer I can give.  For me, at least, there is no blinking neon sign with an arrow pointing to significant dreams.  It's something I feel.  Something (some part of me, I'd guess) goes up-side my head and says (non-verbally, of course) "Hey shite-for-brains, look at this!"

I am confident that such abilities can be learned and refined.  Perhaps the lessons I received in using a crystal ball helped, but that's another story...

Here's something to try next time you experience sleep paralysis:  Close your dreaming eyes and will yourself to sit up, then stand up and walk away.  A few things could happen.  You might wake up.  You can't sit up (requires will, not muscles).  You'll be sleep-walking (doubtful but possible).  You'll be having and out-of-body experience (AKA lucid dream).

In dreams, the mind is king and willpower rules!

Nite-Nite & Pleasant Dreams!

McKnight

[fallout330]

Very interesting and cool information McKnight!  I was aware of Tianeptene, which seems very interesting in it's mechanism of action, but I didn't know of the other two, Hydergine and Nicergoline...will have to look into those a bit more.  Thank for you dream experience input!

[MR T]

Excellent info,Eon
   I never tried any dream herb, but had mild success with melatonin-only for  a couple of days, until tolerance is built up.I would try try some dream herbs though-
  I totally agree with you about lucid dreaming and your opinion on deju-vu, I wonder what kind of psychological research has been done with that? I wonder if the pineal gland is responsible for deju vu?
  either way thanx for the info
 
                                       mrt

[Eon T McKnight]

I have recently (three nights ago) come up with a technique that seems to fit in this dream oriented topic.  I have been something of a night owl since the age of 10.  To me, the middle of the night is a wonderful time when I can let my awareness flow and expand, unfettered by the noise and clamor of others.  The down side to this is that I have been subject to insomnia.  That is, if I get stimulated or worried by an idea or plans for the next day, I cannot get to sleep.

Three nights ago, I turned off the lights and laid back with hopes (but no assurance) of going to sleep.  As I lay there, I got the idea that if I tried to emulate the dream state, it might help to induce sleep.  By golly, it did!  It worked again the next night and last night, too!

Recalling the mental imagery of dreaming, I pretended/imagined that I was dreaming.  That is, I visualized myself walking around in a dream, and within minutes, I was asleep.  On the third night (last night), the dream feeling was more difficult to conjure, so I just recalled every dream that I could, starting with a fever dream and nightmares from the age of 5.  It took a bit longer, but it worked again.

I'm thinking that along with inducing sleep, contemplation of previous dreams just prior to sleep may eventually lead to more vivid dreaming.  I would be most interested in hearing from others, especially fellow insomniacs, who try it.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz's

Eon

[fallout330]

Interesting experience Eon, never thought that about this technique, so it may be worth trying.  BTW, those fever dreams can be strange and sometimes uncomfortable, I've never been a fan.  The only other interesting sleep related experience that was interesting to me, has been Sleep Paralysis, which rarely has happened, but when it does, it usually is memorable.

[Calaquendi]

Wow compelling notion there McKnight...I have heard some people say that if you're having trouble falling asleep, just focus on trying to keep awake. That sounded so ass-backward to me that I figured "it must work". Taking it a step further - your ideas of trying to conjure dream imagery- it almost sounds like self hypnosis. Seems like this technique may be beneficial in inducing lucid dreaming too.

Strangely enough, the closest I come to a lucid dream is when I encounter rare bouts of sleep paralysis. As fallout says - these are certainly memorable experiences and they're usually pretty scary ones for me. In fact, it's partly the lucidity of the sleep paralysis state that's so frightening. Couple a sense of knowing you're asleep (and dreaming) with an inability to move -willfully- out of it, and it's a recipe for fallin out of bed...I've had to exert myself- the weirdest feeling, takes literally everything I have to force my way out of sleep paralysis. A visceral tearing from the 'other side' and it's freaky as hell. I wonder if using your method would, with practice, make it easier to move in and out of these states. Have to give this a try!

[fallout330]

Yes Cal, I do agree, usually memorable in an unpleasant way.

[Eon T McKnight]

Yes indeed, friend Fallout, them fever dreams be weird!  I was walking round and round in the lower level of a castle with stone walls with torches on the walls.  Every time I walked by one of the torches, I could feel the heat.  I recall I was running a 105 degree fever at the time.  Not a pleasant dream, but not a nightmare, either  --  but VERY vivid.

Cal, I do agree that there are elements of self-hypnosis in the technique and also elements of meditation/contemplation.  While I have not had a sleep paralysis dream since starting to use the technique, my dreams have been more friendly and pleasant.  I'm not sure yet if there is a correlation.

It does seem to be fairly reliable for me, so far.  It's sort of fun, too, dredging up dreams that I have not thought about in years.  Perhaps the fact that the ones easiest to recall are those that were special/magical in some way is part of the reason that current dreams are pleasant.

~eon

[fallout330]

Interesting fever dream Eon.  I noticed that most of the time, when one is in that state, the dreams and thoughts seem to be sort of stuck in a loop and it seems like you can't escape for awhile.

[Eon T McKnight]

Thanks for the reply, Fallout.  While contemplating the looping nature of that early fever dream, I recalled waking two or three times and then going back to the castle and the torches upon falling asleep again.  So, it was also the first recurring dream that I can remember.

I also remember having the ability to make the torches burn brighter and hotter when they dimmed.  I wonder if it corresponded to changes in my body temperature???

~e