Author Topic: Ibo in Mexico  (Read 14416 times)

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Offline x

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Re: Ibo in Mexico
« Reply #15 on: October 22, 2009, 05:46:41 PM »
Okay, medicine alone is expensive. If you can buy 'in bulk' it's better, but not many can afford that, so medicine, it can cost between $700US and $1000US or so for one person. Potentially more for boosters, which are a good idea, IMHO.
There are adjunct meds to have handy, like a benzo, melatonin, triptophan, SAMe and others, there's more dollars. The care, if a sitter just for the first 48 hours, that's still 48 hours of constant attention by one or two people. If there were an hourly wage attached, wow. let's just say your caregivers are only worth $5/hr. For two of them for just 48 hours, $500 right there. Any longer, even more. A week of constant care? How much? These cheap caregivers will be potentially mopping your vomit, monitoring your medical condition, listening, staying awake most of the night, holding your hand, cooking meals, just being focused on You very strongly. That's a heavy job.
What about the special things you'll want to have around, electrolyte water, straws, vitamins, fruits, special juices, etc? How about gas money to and from where ever you are, if not driving yourself?
Also, who just shows up at the door of a provider, then leaves, never to be heard from again? There is pre session work and post session work. Not that it can't be a beautiful labor of love, but it remains labor.

Not cheap, no way. I think $2000 is a very fair, actually inexpensive price for a week of care plus all expenses.
If in a medical clinic, the price just goes up. You won't find a doctor to work for $5 per hour.

My two dollars and 56 cents.
I was trying to get to Dream House, myself. If I remember correctly, their two week fee was about $5,500, maybe a couple hundred less. I think that's the least expensive I've heard. I'd still like to go there someday.

Offline Eon T McKnight

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Re: Ibo in Mexico
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2009, 05:57:31 AM »
Tia Tia Tia!    "Mopping up your vomit" ???  No pussyfooting here...

$2000 might be the 'standard cost' once it is legalized and perscribed (and subsidized) here in the US of A once a single payor health plan is enacted (never?) and once UniMediCare takes care of 10,000 such cases every year (never!?!).

Until then, friend fallout, we is on our own.  Our best and only hope is communicating w/ each other.  OOPS, that's what you're doin'.  Nevermind.       ~eon

Offline x

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Re: Ibo in Mexico
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2009, 02:00:11 PM »
Oh vehemence. I get that way sometimes.  ;D

I'll be back soon, maybe a week.

Talk to y'all later.


fallout330

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Re: Ibo in Mexico
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2009, 02:11:02 PM »
Yeah Tia,

I believe The Dream house may be the best option, if your able to travel way down to south Mexico, Tia.  

Yes, Eon, if finances are a concern, as for most of us, so finding other safe ways may be the only option.  I believe Tia went this route not too long ago.  A realistic option that I was considering is having Ibo hcl shipped to Juarez, MX from a reliable supplier and having the support there available for the days needed for the experience.  I would be looking at no more than $1500 total in costs, possibly.  I would have a fairly strong support system in place such as an RN available and health monitoring equipment.  The only issue currently is the risk of going over to Juarez, due to the current random violence that occurs. There may be more peaceful, less risky areas near the southern boarder here.  I'm sure this could also be done if your near the northern border, up in Canada.  Currently I'm on Pristiq(Desvenlafaxine) which has proved to be fairly effective with minimal side effects, so this time would not be the best moment for me, but I certainly leave it open for the future.  

Take Care

Offline Eon T McKnight

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Re: Ibo in Mexico
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2009, 04:02:04 AM »
Fallout, some thoughts and questions re: what you said.

((1))  Is the supplier in MX?  If not, what are Mexican Customs like now?  Do they ignore letters containing a few grams of powder?  Will they want you to pay import duty?

((2))  Very generally speaking, where would said package of powder be delivered?  To a friend?  A post office box?  Some sort of private postal service company?

((3))  As concerns using Eboka in war-torn Juarez, I know that I would prefer just about anywhere else.  I expect that you are well aware that a few grams of powder could be placed in a non-permeable container and siliconed shut for a few days.  Eliminating the need to pay muchos pesos for bed and board would certainly keep the cost down.  On the other hand, paying a few bucks more might get you and your sitters a suite in the Juarez Hilton (if there is such a beast) where chances of being gunned down are lower.

((4))  I was on venlafaxine which came out first and is a precursor to desvenlafaxine in the body.  The literature says to wait two weeks before switching to another serotonergic drug, and the same advice would probably apply to Eboka.  However, you may find withdrawal (discontinuation syndrome, as they are now euphemistically calling it) uncomfortable and need to extend that time while tapering off.

((5))  Am I correct, Fallout, in my understanding that you are not now using opiates, methadone, etc.?  If that is true, are you seeking Eboka because you have some other 'substance of abuse'?  I don't want to pry into anything, but I'm wondering if we share similar reasons for seeking Eboka.

The only things I am addicted to at present are moclobemide, buspar and tobacco for anxiety and depression.  Though I don't drink ethanol on a daily basis, I do have a concern that I sometimes (too often?) consume too much when I do drink.  I'm not currently using cocaine, opiates, speed, or anything else.  I don't know where to get the things I would like to be using  --  e.g. shrooms or LSD.

I'm seeking Eboka because I believe that it can resolve and heal psycho-social issues from my past that continue to haunt me and because I believe it can provide a vision of where I should be going in the future.  If I never do any drugs  --  including alcohol and nicotine  --  aside from the friendly psychedelics and mary jane, that would be great.

Yer pal,   eon

fallout330

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Re: Ibo in Mexico
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2009, 11:28:25 AM »
Hey Eon, a number of good questions!

((1)) I know there are a number of possible suppliers in Mexico along with a good number, overseas.  I know the mail system in Mexico is fairly good, and should be no problem with shipping Ibogaine there, since it is considered an experimental medicine, If labeled properly there should be no big delay.  I think Tia may know more about this, since I believe this was part of her own experience.

((2)) Any of those would be an option Eon.  I would prefer a friend or families home for shipment.

((3)) There are some very nice places here in Juarez for lodging if one was willing to pay extra.  Would probably be best for extra comfort and peace of mind.  There are still many people around Juarez living normal peaceful lives.

((4)) Yes, I was on Effexor(Venlafaxine), in which I did notice some unpleasant side effects and the discontinuation was fairly uncomfortable.  This current pharmaceutical, Pristiq(Desvenlafaxine) seems to have almost no side effects, and I assume the discontinuation would be less harsh.  Best to taper off over a 2-3 week period, I do agree!

((5)) My main issue is the use of Alcohol and behaviors associated with it.  I"ve been dealing with this since about 1998.  Thankfully I've never had to deal any other type of substance abuse issue. Anxiety and Depression have played a large part in this whole issue.  I realize that some psychedelics, if used properly, can possibly lend a hand in changing some of these harmful behaviors, my experience is limited in this area, so I don't have much personal information.  Hopefully others can comment in this respect.

I wish you hope and peace, Eon, take care man.  


Offline Eon T McKnight

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Re: Ibo in Mexico
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2009, 12:09:28 AM »
Friend Fallout,

Thanks a zillion or two for you reply!  We may indeed have common interests.  I B happy that you spoke to your ETOH thing.

{{{ ETOH Warning }}}Mr. Eonisphere had double the theraputic dose 2nite{{{ PROCEED AT YOU OWN FREAKIN RISK }}}

In spite of any warnings you may be inclined to have had, I shall endeavor to speak most respectably.  It is my current theory that ETOH is the most common and widely perscribed imbibed medication for anxiety.  Part II - Current Theory:  It is really anxiety, not depression, that is our current epidemic (pandemic?).  I have come to believe that anxiety  --  long standing, unresolved anxiety  --  is the root cause of my depression.  The precursor.  I expect the same may be true for others.

I am thinkin' that unlike REAL junkies, us whimpy ETOH junkies just might not need the same therapy as THEY do.  We are truly blessed that we do not share the same physical symptoms when coming off of our medication-of-choice, right?  We are so lucky, we only share the anxiety/depression part with them.

Psychenaut spoke about experience using ibohuasca.  This could be something of value to everyone EXCEPT opiate junkies.  That is, while habitual users of any substance  --  cocaine, tobacco, meth, coffee  -- will indeed experience 'discontinuation syndrome', only the habitual users of opiates and benzodiazepams have any significant physical symptoms.

****   CAUTION    ****    CAUTION    ****    CAUTION    ****

DO NOT TRY COMBINING EBOKA TA EXTRACT WITH AN MAOI ! ! !

Unless and until you know ALL of the compounds present in the TA extract.

Reason being that a TA extract MIGHT contain tyramine or some other toxic amine normally deactivated by MAO.  I have been unable as yet to ascertain a complete list of compounds present in Eboka root bark.  Until an accurate list of compounds is discovered, the safe and wise approach is to assume the worst.


The thing that excites me is the two part thing Eboka does:  1) It resets CNS receptors so that the discontinuation syndrome is eliminated/reduced (don't need a shot 1st thing in the morning); and 2) It provides a substantial period of neurotransmitter substitution that tapers gradually to allow endogenious neurotransmitters to achieve more natural levels & balance.

I wish Tia was back from her vacation to comment...

Truly:  Yours Truly

Eon
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 11:11:48 AM by Eon McKnight »

Offline x

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Re: Ibo in Mexico
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2009, 07:39:02 PM »
"That is, while habitual users of any substance  --  cocaine, tobacco, meth, coffee  -- will indeed experience 'discontinuation syndrome', only the habitual users of opiates and benzodiazepams have any significant physical symptoms."

Bullpucky. You can die from ETOH withdrawal. H withdrawal is seldom fatal, while about 20% of those going through DTs untreated die dead as a doornail.
Alcohol w/d has some rockin' physical sx.

Re getting Ibo to MX, I have a friend there who received it for me. It was labeled as Ibogaine. It was supposed to come two day ship, I believe it ended up taking two weeks, coming from Africa, to all over MX, to the US, then back to a few different places in MX. It went to the US to get tested, according to the opened package and notification slip.

Glad to be back,
Tia

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Ibo in Mexico
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2009, 05:52:50 PM »
as usual, you are correct Tia. Alcohol and bezo withdrawal are the most dangerous, they can INDEED kill...Heroin wd just make you WANT to die, but unless one had underlying serious health issues, opiate cessation, while agonizing, is almost never fatal.

PS>> aren't drugs (almost ALL US scheduled drugs), now legal in Mex? I say circumvent the BS..label it as something else, I would imagine that customs there is inundated with shit now since they've laxed their drug laws? Correct me if I'm wrong?

Love and Calaquendi
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline dreamlistener

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Re: Ibo in Mexico
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2010, 03:37:57 AM »
Yeah Tia,

I believe The Dream house may be the best option, if your able to travel way down to south Mexico, Tia.  

Yes, Eon, if finances are a concern, as for most of us, so finding other safe ways may be the only option.  I believe Tia went this route not too long ago.  A realistic option that I was considering is having Ibo hcl shipped to Juarez, MX from a reliable supplier and having the support there available for the days needed for the experience.  I would be looking at no more than $1500 total in costs, possibly.  I would have a fairly strong support system in place such as an RN available and health monitoring equipment.  The only issue currently is the risk of going over to Juarez, due to the current random violence that occurs. There may be more peaceful, less risky areas near the southern boarder here.  I'm sure this could also be done if your near the northern border, up in Canada.  Currently I'm on Pristiq(Desvenlafaxine) which has proved to be fairly effective with minimal side effects, so this time would not be the best moment for me, but I certainly leave it open for the future.  

Take Care

**I would look at other clinics, I had a very bad experience with the dream house. Thank god for ibogaine, and I did get clean there, but the place was a disaster. maybe it has changed now though.

fallout330

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Re: Ibo in Mexico
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2010, 09:39:23 AM »
Hey dreamlistener, I"m curious why you had a bad experience at the dream house down in Nayarit?  I was seriously considering going there. 

Thanks

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: Ibo in Mexico
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2010, 02:19:51 PM »
I went to Sara's house in the Netherlands, back in March of 2004.  I went to kick methadone, and with everything included, for 1 week, (and she would have kept me longer had I wanted or needed to stay) I paid about $2300 total.  She charged me a very cheap price, and just wanted to help.  Mind you, I did not pay her all of that $2300.  That included plane tickets that were maybe around $600 round trip?  Hard to remember..  It also included my food, drinks, the cannabis I bought, and hash.  Cigarettes, and pretty much everything you could think of, for around $2300.  Now this was 6 years ago, and times have changed, there is inflation, and lots to consider, however, she treated me with utmost respect, even though I had really nothing.  She took care of me through the entire experience, checked on me, brought me a vomit bucket, helped me to and from the bathroom, and brought me teas or things to drink.  She made me food, and sat with me to talk about everything and anything my heart felt.  

Now to me, this is such a priceless thing, in and of itself, that had I had it, I would have easily paid her double.  She took me into her home, as an addict and sent me away a changed person, yet she didn't know me from Adam.  I cannot express enough thanks to her, and can't say how much she charges, but I do know she is very loving, caring, and experienced with iboga, and is probably one of the cheaper/est options.  With that being said, she doesn't have a fully equipped medical facility, although she is not far from a hospital should the need arise.  

For someone extremely worried about having a full medical staff, with training in dealing with pre-screening, post ibo treatment counseling, booster doses as need, and any other sort of in depth medical and counseling treatment options, I could easily see these prices reaching $5-10K, depending on the amenities of the center.  Sara did screen me herself, asked me questions and got to know me through emails and by telephone before she took me, and she gave me a real break on the cost, cause I was desperate, and she saw something in me (she even offered me a booster afterward, which I was kinda scared to take after what I had just went through, so declined).  She was very easy to talk to and listened to me express my feelings and talked about addiction with me, and all about the effects of the iboga, as well as other plant medicines she used.  She was very concerned with how I felt and what I needed, and that was enough for me.

I had been on a methadone program for 3.5 years and tried a bunch of clinical detoxes before that, so I had run the gamut of counseling sessions and AA/NA meetings, and various forms of individual counseling in the methadone program.  All these things helped prepare me for what I wanted to get from iboga, and even though I still tried to use, when I returned home, it didn't feel the same, and I knew that I didn't want to fuck up the opportunity I had been given.  I straightened out, and gave up the opiates, gave up cigarettes within 5 months, gave up sweets and sodas, within weeks.  I had 5 full years, with some of the happiest times, and those in which I truly felt, and connected with a much higher self.  

So that's what I have to say about Sara, and the cost of treatment.  I believe I was blessed to get a deal as tremendous as that, and it truly changed mine and my family's lives for the better.

So my update after the 5 years..

Last year, I unfortunately broke a clavicle, and there is not much they can do for that type of injury, except medicate.  Well, I gave up buying the damn pills (Vicodin) from the high priced doctor that I had to take 4 times a day, at least, and started using much cheaper poppy pods.  Worked great for pain, one dose lasted all day, and I healed.  It ain't set right, but hey, it is back together, and I still have full range of motion.  Anyways, I have stopped the pods and reduced my dose to 30 mgs of morphine sulfate a day.  I have extracted ibogaine 3 times myself (each time getting more pure), and have found a very simple yet efficient way to make a very potent, even purified extract from root bark.  

This time I am gonna rely on a family member to sit for me, and I am much more confident in myself with iboga.  It doesn't seem to really frighten me, unless I sit and read all kinds of warnings, which I know are serious and relevant, but it almost makes me become a hypochondriac.  Hell, I took a low dose of iboga, maybe half of a flood dose, back in December, but never got the visions and my withdrawal came back pretty strong, so I wasn't successful (maybe partially, seeing as I did step my maintenance dose way down).  This time I have made a much more pure extract, and am going to better prepare for the experience.  I also have enough for at least two full flood doses, so I should have plenty, even if I don't hold it all down.  

Disclaimer/Warning:

Ibogaine is very serious medicine, and for anyone, even a healthy individual, all relevant medical tests should be done, such as (but not limited to) ECG/EKG, liver/kidney function tests, and even checks for cardiovascular health.  One should be fully aware of any types of medications, as well as supplements, and even certain foods, that could interfere with an ibogaine session.  If/when you do find a provider, please tell them everything and anything you have taken, including vitamins, supplements, herbs, homeopathic herbs/medicines, and any drugs, period.  

Now having said this, people will still want to try it themselves, so there are a bunch of things to research, and a few people you may want to speak with about various things you are unsure of.  This medicine is still in very experimental stages, and not everyone knows how to treat every situation with ibogaine.  Different providers take different approaches, and hopefully they communicate it as well as possible with other providers, so there can be as much information and ideas as possible when encountering strange circumstances.  

I found Dr. Kamlet's speech from the ibogaine conference very informative about how the body/heart reacts and certain treatments that are given, rather than traditional things while under the influence of ibogaine, that many emergency room doctors would almost definitely not know.  So please, if anyone does decide to go this alone, with a trusted and informed loved one as a sitter, please do as much research as you possibly can together, ask as many questions as you need to here and anywhere that you possibly can that is related to ibogaine, and please take all the precautions you can.  

We don't need to lose ANYONE (else) with this medicine!!

Hope this helps!
« Last Edit: February 26, 2010, 02:23:15 PM by GratefulDad »
GratefulDad

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Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Ibo in Mexico
« Reply #27 on: February 27, 2010, 01:17:30 PM »
Well said, Grateful! Do you have a link to Dr.Kamlet's speech in the conference you can share? Best of luck to you bro...
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: Ibo in Mexico
« Reply #28 on: February 27, 2010, 06:18:01 PM »
It's at the end of this one: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/4702787  (This one is mostly about ibo politics)

And beginning in this one: http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/4708360  (This one contains more about actual treatments right in the beginning)
GratefulDad

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Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Ibo in Mexico
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2010, 10:54:16 PM »
Excellent! Thank you!
« Last Edit: February 27, 2010, 10:56:24 PM by calaquendi »
" I am you and what I see is me..."