Author Topic: Advice needed: Flood or booster for a relapse?  (Read 4495 times)

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Offline fritzerman

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Advice needed: Flood or booster for a relapse?
« on: December 07, 2012, 01:43:00 PM »
Did a flood in Aug and stayed clean til about 30 days ago. I need advice whether a booster would help or whether I need to flood again. I feel stupid for the relapse but want to really quit. I'm at about 50-60 mg /day now. When quit in Aug was at 240 mg/day. I have about 500mg of HCL and 1g of TA left. Thanks for any advice.

Offline fritzerman

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Re: Advice needed: Flood or booster for a relapse?
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2012, 06:21:14 PM »
I tried a booster of about 200mg HCL on Friday night, but withdrawl set in  about 3 hrs later, or 12 hours since last pain pill. now tapering and will try again with 4-500mg of TA. Any advice welcome.

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Re: Advice needed: Flood or booster for a relapse?
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2012, 10:27:20 AM »
Can you link your original thread about your case so others can assess your given scenario and best possibilites? 

Looks like you need another flood but because I don't know your case I'm uninformed about precautions. 

Offline fritzerman

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Re: Advice needed: Flood or booster for a relapse?
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2012, 01:16:57 PM »
Kambo,

I posted in several different threads originally so I will go ahead and just give you the history of my addiction. I was up to about 240 mg per day of OxyContin and had been using for at least two years, although earlier it was at lower levels. I took the flood dose on August 16, 2012. it knocked me down very hard and I was unable to even get back to work for about a month. I started dabbling with kratom in probably October, then stupidly decided to try a few Percocet's beginning about November 15, 2012. I am now up to about 60 – 70 mg per day of oxycodone and have been trying to taper down.

The original flood was quite successful actually in eliminating major withdrawal symptoms. I had extreme fatigue afterwards for quite a long time, but the withdrawal symptoms were quite minimal. I tried using a booster dose of about 200 mg HCl but started having sweats and shivering at about 12 hours after my last use, and about four or five hours after the booster dose.

I have maybe 1 g of TA and probably about 100 mg of HCl. Do you think I need to do an entire flood over or would something less be helpful? my blood does was 1.5 TA and 1.2 g of HCl. This was the dose recommended by iboga world. I weigh 185 pounds/84 kg.

I originally got on the pain pills for a back condition/injury starting about eight years ago. I wanted to avoid surgery that was recommended because both of my brothers have had failed back surgeries and are totally disabled. I am 56 years old and smoke cigarettes. I am still doing my walking, although it is down to one or 2 miles per day. I did a prior flood about seven years ago in New York City without problems and managed to stay clean for several years.

After this last flood I never really got the feeling that my receptors were starting to rebound/recover. I remained fatigued to a large extent and totally lacked motivation or interest in things generally. I don't know if I would say I'm depressed. I'm not suicidal and don't break down crying or anything like that, but this is getting to wear on me pretty good and I do fixate on trying to figure out how to get out of the situation and feel halfway normal. Hell, I don't know if I even know what normal is anymore.

I am really having a lot of anxiety and guilt about this relapse. Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Offline fritzerman

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Re: Advice needed: Flood or booster for a relapse?
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2012, 01:29:57 PM »
Do you think if I tapered down to about 20mg/day, that a series of boosters or some microdosing schedule would do it?

Offline fritzerman

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Re: Advice needed: Flood or booster for a relapse?
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2012, 01:54:55 PM »
I should also tell you that i also quit Adderall(60mg/day) when i did the flood in August. I have not gone back to that. I wonder if that caused recovery after the flood to be difficult(no energy at all for weeks).

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Re: Advice needed: Flood or booster for a relapse?
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2012, 02:19:22 PM »
Quote
I should also tell you that i also quit Adderall(60mg/day) when i did the flood in August. I have not gone back to that. I wonder if that caused recovery after the flood to be difficult(no energy at all for weeks).

Exactly, should have stopped for 72 hrs before hand.  Any stimulant of that order (coke, crack, Adderall ext.) requires 72 hrs. or you get PAWS symptoms.

I can't say (liability risk) you need another flood directly, but at least I can say...what else.  You need a wallop. 

For a more expert opinion (I was waiting for those around here as addictions is not my specialty) here is an interview with protocols that you might find applicable.  Listen specifically to Rocky's section...

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/iboradio1/2012/03/25/giovanni-and-rocky-part-2

Iboga Panacea

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Re: Advice needed: Flood or booster for a relapse?
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2012, 02:21:39 PM »
Don't feel guilty about relapsing, it will have it's beneficial purpose if you keep on the path of healing.  Feeling guilty will only get in the way of healing.  Slate is clean as long as you let it be. 

Basse' = It's OK.  All problems are solve able

Offline fritzerman

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Re: Advice needed: Flood or booster for a relapse?
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2012, 02:34:44 PM »
Kiap,

Thank you for the advice and guidance to Rocky. He has a definite opinion about use of amphetamines with iboga. I hadn't suspected that my use of Adderall so close to the flood was the cause of my slow recovery. It makes sense now. I could tell from the description by others that I wasn't getting the same bounce after my flood that others have described. I was down hard for a good month.

Part of Rocky's discussion about protocols addressed different dosages he uses depending on the habit that was being busted. For short-term use (two years or less) of opiates a lower dose such as 14 mg per kilogram might be enough. I don't know if my recent use qualifies me as a short-term user given the fact that I was using for years up until about four months ago. I have weaned down some and am considering ordering a little bit of HCl from iboga world and trying a flood at the 14 mg/kg level. I've been off the Adderall for four months so hopefully I shouldn't have the same problem with recovery after the flood. That makes  it easier to consider as an option. What do you think?

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Re: Advice needed: Flood or booster for a relapse?
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2012, 03:03:23 PM »
My pleasure if offering the best I can.  Honestly addiction cases are not my specialty whatsoever, so I'm not the best one to ask.  That being said when dealing with any addiction in my opinion it is always better to sway on the side of a higher dose.  Even in your scenario, but that's just how I deal with it.  When treating an addict I always give them about 1/5th more than I would give a psychospiritual or someone that needs general healing.  It might be worthwhile to e-mail Rocky though, I've never tried but it could provide some expert advice.  I'm more in line with the Bwiti arts in terms of how I work with it and rarely do I treat addicts much more so as a general spiritual rebirth.  I certainly don't prefer working with addicts for the exact reason of the good chances for relapse.  Although it has been viewed as some sort of general panacea for addicts when you really look at the cases, most addicts need several treatments because of the tendancy to relapse.  Not to discourage but just to let you know you're not an anamoly by any any means.  It takes great tenacity and dedication.

What your really doing is sublimation.  Working with Iboga as the most powerful plant spirit and giving it the chance to dominate any other preference for plant spirits or drugs.  Sometimes in order to make this happen it requires some serious ass kicking by Iboga.  To get the most out of it, I find, I need to go to it's darkest skariest depths for that is where the brightest light comes out on the other side. 

Offline buck36

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Re: Advice needed: Flood or booster for a relapse?
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2012, 12:08:28 PM »
Fritz - Please keep us updated on how this works out. I'm really curious too see what happens if you do another flood without adderal and tons of opiates on board. I wonder,do people who flood in a less addicted/non addicted state reap the benefits of Iboga more easily?
I feel as though my flood may have been stunted so to speak by lots of methadone/benzo. I have read accounts elsewhere of people who did a 2nd or 3rd flood after using (relatively) less drugs and had an easier time with recovery..... The amount of opiates you are using now arent too high compared to 240 oxy previously. Maybe the silver lining is the flood you are planning now could be a great experience? I hope it works out well :)

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Re: Advice needed: Flood or booster for a relapse?
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2012, 12:22:06 PM »
^Yes.  100% for sure this is the case. 

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: Advice needed: Flood or booster for a relapse?
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2012, 04:17:19 PM »
KIAP has said everything I would. 

Personally, I would say screw 14mg/kg, and would shoot for 25-30..  With my first flood, I did about 5 grams of TA, at around 140 lbs, which means if the TA was 60% pure, or 3 grams of actual pure alkaloids, then my dose would have been 47-48 mg/kg of iboga alkaloids.  That is me though.

Knowing what I know about iboga and the experience, especially in using it to kick opiates, I would probably do something like 15-20 mg/kg of ibogaine HCl, and then like 10mg/kg TA, and expect to get an ass whoopin'.  Many think I am a little psycho, but if you want to know what I think works well, and the way I would do so in the future, here it is.. 

After you take your last short acting opiate dose, and it's about time to take your next dose, wait a little bit.  When you are starting to get minor symptoms (hot flashes or sweats, or that nervous goosebump-y feeling), take a small dose around 1-200 mg of ibogaine HCl.  I would time it so that I took the 1-200 mg when it was time to take my morning/early afternoon (11 am-1 pm) dose.  Then as the ibogaine starts to kicks in, the withdrawal should subside for several hours that day..

I would eat a light healthy breakfast , healthy snack or light lunch.  You want something you can digest and get into your intestines before you are going to do the iboga, basically.  But nothing in your stomach digesting when you are going to take the full flood.  For me this is important, because I am thin and going a couple days without eating makes me very thin and frail after the experience. 

When you start to feel some withdrawal starting up, probably in the early evening, then make sure you have your area set up, sitter ready, and all preparations made to make it as comfortable and safe as possible.  (quiet, dark, calm, etc.)  Then I would do some really pure/potent HCl/PTA mix.  For me, it would be around 25-30 mgs/kg and 60-80% of that HCl and 20-40% PTA..  I think, personally, that is the exact way I would go about treating myself for another addiction. 

I am not recommending you do this for yourself, because you know your body and mind better than I ever could, but you can get an idea of what kind of guidelines I would use for the kind of person I am.  If you don't know me very well (basically a crazy psychonaut that is extremely insensitive to almost everything), go to my profile and click on the list of all my posts, and take a brief look through the titles and skim a few of my earlier posts when I tried to give people an idea of my philosophies and personality.  :)

Anyways, good luck, and don't worry about relapsing, there are very few of us who can do it once and walk away forever.  However, thanks to iboga, we do have the ability to work at getting better, much easier, and that is the way most addicts have to live to eventually attain a life where they are comfortable and happy without needing to take a substance, or certain substances, or whatever your goal is with it..
GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

Offline fritzerman

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Re: Advice needed: Flood or booster for a relapse?
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2012, 03:24:22 PM »
Gratfuldad,

I appreciate your advice and also your words of encouragement. I am concerned about taking such a high dose because of the recovery time from my last flood and how hard it knocked me down. Kambo thought that might've been due to the fact I was taking Adderall and had quit only about 24 hours prior to the flood. I've been off the Adderall now for four months so if that was the cause of my delayed recovery, that's not a problem anymore. I tried to do research to see if I could find out about the details of the problem with interactions between iboga and Adderall but didn't find anything real specific. It was more general like possible heart problems. I didn't find anything that explained how the interactions between the two would delay recovery from the flood dose.

Does anyone have any specific information about how Adderall affects a person's reaction to iboga? I have decided to go ahead and do a flood again rather than try just boosters. I want the dose to be high enough to knock out the addiction/physical withdrawals, but I don't want to be knocked down on my ass again for another month solid like last time. Don't get the impression that I'm not grateful for what iboga has done for me. I am very grateful. I just want to do it correctly in order to receive the gifts that it offers.