Author Topic: Ibogaine hcl and TA regimine  (Read 5866 times)

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Offline Morninggloryseed

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Ibogaine hcl and TA regimine
« on: February 12, 2013, 05:39:26 PM »
After being made aware of ibogaine's anti-addicive properties over 10 years ago, I don't know why I waited until a couple days ago to order.  I suppose the answer was, "I wasn't ready."  It has been a month since I stopped daily opiate use and I am well past the acute withdrawal and into the more fun, post acute withdrawal symptoms.

I introduced myself and my story here: http://eboka.info/index.php?topic=1840.0

See, I have been here before.  I once went 5 months in this hellish state of not being able to sleep, and not having energy or drive to work harder.  That road led back to opiates.  All roads in my life have always led back to opiates so working with iboga is going to be different.  Learning under this guide is the one thing I hope will be different than all the times I tried to stop before.

After careful deliberation, and the generous donation of a friend, I purchased 1g hcl and 1g TA from the well known place often not mentioned here.

Would love some suggestions in a regimen.  I was thinking:

150mg TA for 'allergy test' and to introduce ibogaine to the system.

1hr later:   700mg TA
1:15hr:      900mg ibogaine hcl

Booster 100mg hcl + 150 TA as needed

Some people recommend I take it all at once, and other recommend I spread the wealth.  On this forum, I read everything every which way inbetween.  But most posts deal with either the hcl, or the TA or bark, but not both.  I was hoping some folks in the know would share some words here.

TY
"I have discovered common sense is actually very uncommon."

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Offline BlueTiger

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Re: Ibogaine hcl and TA regimine
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2013, 07:44:20 PM »
IMHO, the amount your allotting for boosters won't have any noticeable effects of prolonging Nori-build which is the goal.  Maybe it will give you a boost for the morning, take some pain away, make you more aware......Now a 2-3 week protocol is 10 times more powerful for accumulation purposes given logical thinking.  Boosting also reportedly prolongs recovery time, as well as Nori-glow (something to keep in mind based on your own life).  I didn't need to work while MDing, so I didn't care how I felt, as long as the Nori stayed strong.  I'm done MDing and on to Noopept. 

If it were me doing this:

Hour 1: I would do 100 mgs HCL
Hour 2: 450 mg HCL
Hour 3: 450 mg HCL
Hour 4: 500mg of TA or the whole gram if you feel up for it. 
Hour 5: 500mg of TA you have anything left.

HCL is done for opiates because it presents the highest level of efficacy reported.  TA is broad spectrum alks, possibly only 15% Ibogaine.  Why not focus your flood on what attacks the issues, versus what is more unknown.  I think the TA has lots to compliment the HCL.  So if you can handle it, then keep asking to be fed TA!  Break open that head! 

Now I suggest stair casing every hour because doctors who practice this treatment will tell you they want to see the drug slowly build in your system, then stay at that heightened level for a few hours (plateau), then slowly decrease.  I like to think of this as an assisted version to allowing the Noribogaine to set properly (once again, my vision, not any way shape or form a fact).  To sum it up, I operate under the theory that stair casing every hour as stated minimizes risk and increases efficacy......like getting two birds stoned  ;)

Get some RB if you can to MD.  Otherwise, you can do so much more to speed up recovery. 

10 years!  Damn Morningglory!  After a decade, are you ready?  The time is now! 

I am not discounting anyone who suggests taking the flood dose all at once, or all within an hour for example.  I believe that should be reserved for healthier folks, not people coming off of drugs.  I just sat someone healthy with HCL, about 500-600mgs to start and the same once more 45 minutes later.  I would not have been so comfortable if the person had not been a healthy to begin with.... 

As for MDing or boosters: I would only do RB for 3 weeks starting on Day 4 at the earliest post flood.  You'll find a schedule that best suits you, I started with a booster in the AM, then one around 2.  Did about 4 days of this, then a day off.  Then just boost in the morning.  Then a few days off.  Then skip days you boost if you can.  Anymore boosting then that and you may be playing with toxicity issues. 

I am going to go out on a limb here and say Noopept may be better than boosters in terms of functioning again for a full productive day.  I am blown away by this stuff.....only on Day 2 though so I can't say for sure. 

If you must do boosters, I would get some RB or put aside 300 mgs of your HCL to boost with and maybe 200 mgs of your TA.

Offline lalababa

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Re: Ibogaine hcl and TA regimine
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2013, 09:48:47 PM »
Hi Morninggloryseed!  After a month off the opiates, you have a huge head start!  I think this could really help knock out the PAWS.  You will probably get some Ibo fatigue which is very common, but after a week or less, I am sure you will get some energy back.  I believe you could notice the benefits right away.  I agree with Blue Tiger about stair-casing the dose, if you take it all at once or too soon together, your sitter could be trying to find some of your dose in your purge.  I think it is better to let some get settled in your system.  I too have seen someone take it all at once and the purge happening too quickly, luckily there was more on hand.  I hope you have more questions for us and that you put a lot of good intention behind this flood.  I think if you are really ready to quit for good (and a month under your belt seems to me like you are)  this could work very well for you.  When were you planning on taking this journey? 
lalababa

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Ibogaine hcl and TA regimine
« Reply #3 on: February 12, 2013, 10:44:59 PM »
Yeah, don't take it all at once - you need to gauge your sensitivity first for one thing, you may not even need to take everything you have planned on. I know people who are hyper-sensitive to ibogaine but can drink a gallon of ayahuasca (not really) - but with any new material we should not let zeal or anything else get on top of pragmatism and safety.  ;)

You seem like you are primed for this - having such a head start on being opiate free will go a looong way for you - and could well be another reason you'd need less material. It will not be 'fighting' through heavily toxified system.

You want to get your medicine in you within about four hours, six tops, for maximum efficacy where the flood is concerned. I think I would do a test dose of 3-5 mg/kg which will end up being a couple hundred mgs (unless you're a Nephilim lol...that'd be an expensive flood eh?)

Take it easy and make sure you got a sitter.  Keep us up on how you're doing and best of luck!
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline Morninggloryseed

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Re: Ibogaine hcl and TA regimine
« Reply #4 on: February 12, 2013, 11:49:00 PM »
I really appreciate the replies.  I have been a life long student of plant teachers and entheogens and have tripped well beyond 'a lifetime worth of journeys.'  As much as I would love a 'guide' I don't know anyone who has taken iboga or ibogaine and nobody I know has anywhere the experience with entheogens that I have.  I will have two 'babysitters' who are close friends from childhood.  From all research, I will probably ask them to leave as soon as I am sure I will not die from the ibogaine.

This is not to say I am 'ready' for the ibogaine trip.  I definitely am not of the mind that I can 'handle' it because it is a big fat unknown.  Probably better that iboga chews me up and spit me out.  I kind of need a trip like that.

Trips on other entheogens are unlikely make me any more 'ready' for iboga than had I been a psychedelic virgin.  I agree that it is a good thing I was able to go through the withdrawal on my own.  In the past ten years I have quit opiates and endured withdrawal a good 4 or 5 times.  I have no problem quitting, I am an old hand, and don't need iboga to make that any easier.  It is staying off them long term that I am hoping for a hand with.

Moreover, the past month of being opiate free has allowed me to see how my other psychoactive substance addictions play such a heavy role in my life.  I have been on prescription amphetamine since I was a kid, I have a prescription for ativan that I will lose sleep over if I am out, and I smoke a lot of pot.

Until recently, I never considered these 'drugs' or a part of my poly drug addiction.  Now I see completely how the opiates took the edge off the speed, and the benzo for sleep, and pot throughout the day as needed, and how this all cycles together into drug seeking behaviors.

What I am seeking from iboga is a level playing field so that I can have the best chance of living a life where I am true to myself, master of my own domain (moderation), and so I can avoid the roads that lead back to daily opiate usage.  That is something I have always lacked.  I am open to being 'drug free' but I am not seeking this.  What I am seeking is to reset my brain so my unique neurotransmitter model can resemble that of someone who has not used speed, downers, opiates, and pot on a daily basis for the better part of 10 years.  Then "I" can make my decisions instead of the 'demon' that is my drug addiction dictating to me what to do under threat of no sleep, no sanity, no ability to move beyond getting out of bed and into the shower.  This is really the only thing I am hoping iboga will do for me.  Anything else, I leave open to the gods.

I am stuck between the 'stair step' model and flooding all at once.  But the above words regarding the ibogaine hcl being my (to paraphrase) target compound was helpful.  I think something like 300mg TA, at 1hr 500mg ibogaine hcl, 500mg more at 1.5hr, and the rest of the TA at 3hr.  This will 'spread out' the shock to the body, while (I believe) still flooding my brain for maximum visionary and healing experience.

I have no recovery time to worry about, no work obligations for the next month, all of this time is for this therapy.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2013, 06:56:36 AM by Morninggloryseed »
"I have discovered common sense is actually very uncommon."

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Offline lalababa

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Re: Ibogaine hcl and TA regimine
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2013, 12:01:15 AM »
I think your head is in the right place.  I would not however have your friends leave after you feel safe, Ataxia can be very strong for some and one of the bigger dangers would be that you could fall if you tried to get up, and you will probably need to at some point.  I had to piss like a drunk during my detox and really needed the help to get up, and my ataxia seems to be less than some... also if you purge, it may not be until later in the flood, you want someone there for the duration.   Also, are you off the amphetamines???  You do not want to combine them and you want to be off of them for awhile, several days at the very least.  Though having experience with other enthogens is helpful, Iboga is very different from other entheogens.
lala

Offline BlueTiger

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Re: Ibogaine hcl and TA regimine
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2013, 12:32:13 PM »
What I am seeking from iboga is a level playing field so that I can have the best chance of living a life where I am true to myself, master of my own domain (moderation), and so I can avoid the roads that lead back to daily opiate usage.  That is something I have always lacked.  I am open to being 'drug free' but I am not seeking this.  What I am seeking is to reset my brain so my unique neurotransmitter model can resemble that of someone who has not used speed, downers, opiates, and pot on a daily basis for the better part of 10 years.  Then "I" can make my decisions instead of the 'demon' that is my drug addiction dictating to me what to do under threat of no sleep, no sanity, no ability to move beyond getting out of bed and into the shower.  This is really the only thing I am hoping iboga will do for me.  Anything else, I leave open to the gods.

Glad to help Morningglory!  You story sounds familiar to me.  Moderation is the spice of life.  But, I know I never want to mess with my opiate system again given what I know now. 

Your story rings especially loud for me for some reason.  Start to get excited about your new life!  Iboga always seems to do it's job, massive system reboot!  BUT, it is just the beginning!  No one knows how much damage WE have done with the 10 years of uppers and downers, etc, but I can see the light!  I have crossed over to the other side.  My brain is re-wired and I am running through my life with a zen like ferocity!  Life has taken on new meaning, I feel like a new person, like the person I wanted to be before drugs became the ultimate aspect my life would revolve around. 

Although I see it as the foundation to this monumental life change, I do not believe that Iboga can do everything that you are looking for.  PAWS will be easier to deal with when Nori shines bright, no question.  But you need more.  I make an analogy of Iboga being a powerful motor, but you still need a boat!  Check it out:  http://eboka.info/index.php?topic=1793.msg15046#msg15046

Last thought:  Definitely make sure you are ready for Iboga considering other meds you are on.  And, I am starting to believe that there are substances out there (i.e. nootropics) that can possibly continue to assist in repairing damage that we have done overtime. 




Offline mindash

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Re: Ibogaine hcl and TA regimine
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2013, 04:10:53 AM »
Yeah, don't take it all at once - you need to gauge your sensitivity first for one thing, you may not even need to take everything you have planned on. I know people who are hyper-sensitive to ibogaine but can drink a gallon of ayahuasca (not really)

for this i will vouche for personally. 10 grams of bark levels me yet ive brewed enormous doses of mimosa and taken it with high doses of harmine and could still reach further and personally i like ibo alot more than dmt but would never risk taking over 600mg of hcl or more than a gram of TA. the ibo will let you know what you need

Offline Morninggloryseed

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Re: Ibogaine hcl and TA regimine
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2013, 03:39:12 PM »
I won't have any bark to work with.  I will have one gram of the hcl and one gram of TA reputed to be potent, I am told 25%-35% ibogaine content.

I was thinking a test dose of 200mg 50/50 mixture of ibogaine hcl and TA.  Then maybe 600mg of the 50/50mix every 45 min till maximum is reached.  If the TA is as potent as some say, that test dose should well be active allowing me to gauge.  No?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 03:42:46 PM by Morninggloryseed »
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Offline Jox

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Re: Ibogaine hcl and TA regimine
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2013, 07:29:40 PM »
After the test dose do it all at once, if you have a sitter. I don't agree with those who are advising in taking it in many portions... you totally loose the momentum and ego death... it's a waste...

Jox

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Re: Ibogaine hcl and TA regimine
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2013, 07:40:11 PM »
Are you then saying the Bwiti are incorrect?  In between the exactitudes are rainbows and much grey matter.  But I see your point.  Don't mean to be a spike to your viewpoints Jox, just chiming in with an IMO.  I truly appreciate you and all you are and I hope my viewpoints are nothing personal. 

Offline BlueTiger

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Re: Ibogaine hcl and TA regimine
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2013, 09:07:51 PM »
you totally loose the momentum and ego death... it's a waste...

The above statement is an opinion stated as fact. 

Jox is advising in absolutes and starting to come across as a little naive.  There is almost nothing you could say to me to support such claims.

I mean no disrespect.  Unlike KIAP, I do not know you.  But my whole core focus is ego death right now and connecting to the uniform being.....I have always stair cased for the reasons stated.....

Frankly, what you learn on your flood doesn't mean dick if you don't carry it over into your life.  My ego continues to shed day after day.....and for you to call the stair casing method I have come to trust, and all my personal Iboga work over the last year "a waste."  It just sounds so unbelievably false and you should know this, as well as any other readers. 

Jox, I humbly disagree with your statement. 
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 09:17:12 PM by BlueTiger »

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Re: Ibogaine hcl and TA regimine
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2013, 09:18:33 PM »
On a totally related note I realize the in between Black and White: Grey Matter theory hits the spot...

Quote
every 45 min till maximum is reached. 
?
I would say that's too far to space out.  IMO spacing out every 15 minutes is more optimal.  Want to have it all sink in before purging occurs.  Some purge after 1hr of first dose, most don't but just keep in mind with Iboga floods it's really hard to gauge the many nuances. 

Offline Jox

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Re: Ibogaine hcl and TA regimine
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2013, 12:40:13 PM »
@ BlueTiger,

actually we resemble each other, when I speak as you just did Kambogahuasca Panacea call it unfiltered comments, it was cracking me up, and ever since I tried to be more...

but I know what you mean, ego death was not the main point of my comment at all, it is not ego death as in DMT, or mushrooms, I wrote a lot about this in my posts.

I practice Zen, and had been in psychoanalysis for years, do yoga and S/M as complements to the plants teachings, I am not looking for brake through on plants, whatever that may mean.

@ Kambogahuasca Panacea

I think we should have a clear terminology, especially for the new comers. If we use "full flood" it should mean something, if we use "microdosing" it should mean something. If not we will have people taking a table spoon of root bark and calling it full flood on root.

No doubt there are many ways of doing treatments, boosters, follow ups, what not... but we should have a clear terminology and stick to it.

Jox

Offline BlueTiger

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Re: Ibogaine hcl and TA regimine
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2013, 02:52:04 PM »
Communication is one of the most difficult things sometimes and this is a great example.  Words are dead, and only WE can can give them life and meaning.  Whether English is your first language or not.....

@ BlueTiger,
actually we resemble each other, when I speak as you just did Kambogahuasca Panacea call it unfiltered comments, it was cracking me up, and ever since I tried to be more...
I am not looking for brake through on plants, whatever that may mean.

Jox, let me premise with my intentions of peace, love, and understanding.  This forum has brought much humor to me as well.  I feel like you maybe were going to give some valuable feedback and decided not to:  "it was cracking me up, and ever since I tried to be more... "  I am very open to hearing the rest of this.  Especially if it is something that you feel may help me at some point....
Comments have an interesting route of filtration in each person's brain, but what a great reflection as to who that person is.....  If I fully filtered all my comments, I may never actually post anything or connect with anyone. 
Jox, lastly Eboka brother, I can feel you are trying to be more zen.  I could say the same....However, from your above comment, I really cannot deduce what you are trying to do with plants....

IMO spacing out every 15 minutes is more optimal.  Want to have it all sink in before purging occurs.  Some purge after 1hr of first dose, most don't but just keep in mind with Iboga floods it's really hard to gauge the many nuances. 

Agreed.  Another question to ask yourself is would you keep eating Iboga after you purge.  Some people seem to do so, i personally would not.  But I am an HCL man, so.....that really is different than the TA.  Talk about a new way to feel your esophagus.  Interestingly enough, my heartburn/acid reflux remains dormant after my last flood 2 months ago. 
Thinking back on that last flood, it really did feel like my brain became this radio that tuned into this Ibogaine frequency that was the foundation for the death of my ego......and I treasure that moment when I met the spirit.