Author Topic: Vinpocetine, Vincamine or Tabersonine and extracts of Voacanga Africana Seeds  (Read 11925 times)

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Iboga Panacea

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Oh you mean another drug...ok...well if you don't mind Iboga relatives that happen to be powerful nootropics as well...

Tabersonine also marketed as Vinpocetine is an isolated extract from Voacanga Africana seeds.  No threads that I can remember on here and none have us have followed through on a program or protocol yet.  But anyways, it's out there...

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Vinpocetine is an herbal supplement used to treat thinking and memory problems, such as Alzheimer's disease.

Other names for Vinpocetine include: Ethyl apovincaminate, Ethyl apovincaminoate, and vinca minor. Vinpocetine is a derivative of Vincamine. It facilitates cerebral metabolism by improving blood flow to the brain, boosting brain cell ATP production, and increasing utilization of glucose and oxygen by neurons. Vinpocetine increases the production of Noradrenaline and Dopamine, contributing, in this way, to the release of Serotonin and the concentration of Acetylcholine. Research has shown that the effects of this compound go beyond mere prevention and turn it into a Powerful Memory Enhancer.

Note: please correct me as it is potentially unethical to post a vendor that I have never used but here is one...
http://www.sanherb.com/en_pro_show.asp?id=26


Iboga Panacea

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In my renewed fascination with this substance under several names Vinpocetine, Vincamine or Tabersonine I have found that it was recently approved in the US but not by the FDA (a plus in my books), seems so promising. 

I see this company has it on the cheap, I'm gonna have to get my feet wet then create a thread.  I mean being that it is an Iboga relative and Indole Alkaloid I see it is all so fitting.  Also I read it is fine to use with Noopept. 

http://www.nutrasanus.com/vinpocetine-product.html
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Vinpocetine enhances brain metabolism. Obtained from tabersonine, which in turn is an alkaloid extracted from Voacanga seeds, Vinpocetine works by increasing the synthesis of ATP in the brain and by increasing the utilization of oxygen. Vinpocetine also enhances the synthesis of some neurotransmitters that influence critical brain functions such as mood, focus, and memory recall.

Vinpocetine may also have antioxidant effects similar to those of vitamin E and be beneficial to brain function and age-related cognitive decline. Vinpocetine may have a number of other beneficial health effects, including increasing cerebral blood flow, anticonvulsant activities, and neuroprotection. Often referred to as nootropic or cognition enhancer, Vinpocetine is used in many parts of the world to treat cerebrovascular and cognitive problems.

Iboga Panacea

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WOWZERS...

http://www.vitasprings.com/vinpocetine-vincamine.html

I think it's fairly new to the US market.  Some of those companies like Jarrow and Source Naturals I can attest are reputable. Excuse my obsession but I think I smell a pray prey.  Also can be made from Vinca Minor apparently which I don't know if it is an Iboga relative or not.

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Vincamine, an alkaloid obtained from botanicals such as Vinca minor (lesser periwinkle), supports cerebral metabolism by promoting cerebral blood flow and oxygen and glucose utilization. It may also support cognitive function and enhanced memory and concentration.

Vinpocetine is a derivative of vincamine, a key component of the lesser periwinkle plant. Research suggests vinpocetine may improve cognitive performance and short-term memory loss that is sometimes experienced with stress or aging. Animal studies have shown that vinpocetine significantly increases circulatory parameters including total cerebral blood flow.

Iboga Panacea

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Lets give a go Ebokians!

http://www.jarrow.com/product/178/Vinpocetine

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Vinpocetine is a compound derived from vincamine, an alkaloid naturally occurring in Voacanga seeds. Vinpocetine supports brain metabolism by increasing cerebral synthesis of ATP, the universal “currency” of energy.* Vinpocetine enhances brain metabolism by improving utilization of oxygen.* Vinpocetine also modulates neurotransmitter release in areas associated with memory.*

Sounds like Kambo for the brain.  ATP, universal currency of energy!!! I think I need to stop posting on this for now.  See what internet access does to me.  Once an addict always a magnet. 

Offline JohnnyB.Goode

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CAUTION SIDE

Vinpocetine (ethyl apovincaminate) is a synthetic derivative of the alkaloid vincamine (from the periwinkle plant vinca minor) and has cerebral blood-flow enhancing (1) and voltage sensitive Na+ channel inhibiting properties (2), leading to it's use as a drug in Hungary, Germany and Russia in the treatment of cerebrovascular dementia and Alzheimer's disease (3). Vinpocetine has also become popular supplement in the United States, and is often marketed to otherwise healthy individuals for improvement of memory and self-treatment of age-associated memory decline. Though the specific mechanism of action of vinpocetine has not been fully elucidated, effects on the dopaminergic system have been scarcely investigated.

Trejo F et al, 2001 reported on the "Characterization of vinpocetine effects on DA and DOPAC release in striatal isolated nerve endings" and found that vinpocetine increases DOPAC release, while simultaneously decreasing vesicular dopamine storage in a similar fashion as reserpine - an indole alkaloid with antipsychotic and antihypertensive properties with some structural similarities to vinpocetine (4). The authors report in the results section that "vinpocetine at increasing concentrations progressively decreases internal DA and increases DOPAC release" and "markedly inhibits DAT-mediated release of endogenous DA." (5)

The effects of vinpocetine on DA and DOPAC levels are not believed to be related to the well-demonstrated inhibitory effects on voltage sensitive Na+ channels, as "vinpocetine increases DOPAC release independently of the state of presynaptic VSSC." A possible MAO-A enhancing mechanism is ruled out "as vinpocetine fails to modify the inhibition of DOPAC formation caused by clorgyline" - a potent inhibitor of MAO-A, "indicating that a reserpine-like mechanism is involved in the vinpocetine-induced increase in DOPAC formation." (6)

If vinpocetine does indeed act in a "reserpine-like" fashion in striatal dopaminergic neurons, one could legitimately raise concern over the use of vinpocetine in otherwise healthy individuals for "cognitive enhancement," as side effects may manifest consistent with reserpine-like side effects, including depression and cognitive dysfunction (7, 8). Because resperine inhibits VMAT-2, the protein primarily responsible for the transportation of monoamines from the cytosol to synaptic vesicles, the amount of dopamine, norepinephrine and serotonin stored in neurons may be substantially decreased pre-synaptically by vinpocetine, leading to a downregulation of monoaminergic tone.

In other words, while vinpocetine may be neuroprotective under some experimental and clinical conditions, it may also interfere with monoamine storage, and affect the way in which the brain responds to drugs acting through dopaminergic, adrenergic, or serotonergic pathways (e.g. amphetamine, modafinil, methylphenidate, cocaine, SSRIs, bupropion, etc). Serious consideration should be given before taking vinpocetine, as it is a highly active pharmacological agent that interacts and interferes with a wide array of brain systems and functions.

***********

Vinpocetine preferentially antagonizes quisqualate/AMPA receptor responses: evidence from release and ligand binding studies.
Kiss B, Cai NS, Erdö SL.

Pharmacological Research Centre, Gedeon Richter Ltd., Budapest, Hungary.

The effect of vinpocetine on excitatory amino acid receptors was examined in the rat brain by two different biochemical approaches. In release experiments with striatal slices, vinpocetine reduced the efflux of dopamine and acetylcholine evoked by glutamate, quisqualate and N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA), but not that evoked by kainate. In binding experiments with cortical membranes, vinpocetine reduced the binding of [3H]2-amino-3-3-hydroxy-s-methylisoxasole-4-yl-propionic acid ([3H]AMPA), a quisqualate partial agonist, in an incomplete manner, but failed to influence the binding of [3H]kainate and [3H]3-(2-carboxypyperazine-4-yl)-propyl-1-phosphonic acid ([3H]CPP), an NMDA agonist. These findings suggest that vinpocetine is a quisqualate/AMPA antagonist of some specificity and selectivity.

***********************************************

Effects of several cerebroprotective drugs on NMDA channel function: evaluation using Xenopus oocytes and [3H]MK-801 binding.
Kaneko S, Sugimura M, Inoue T, Satoh M.

Department of Pharmacology, Faculty of Pharmaceutical Sciences, Kyoto University, Japan.

The effects of several cerebroprotective and nootropic drugs on the function of excitatory amino acid (EAA) receptor subtypes expressed in Xenopus oocytes after injection of rodent brain poly(A)+ mRNA were investigated. The oocyte response to N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) in the presence of glycine (Gly) was inhibited dose-dependently by bifemelane, indeloxazine, vinpocetine and vincamine while no effect was observed by idebenone, Ca hopantenate, aniracetam or piracetam. Bifemelane, indeloxazine and vinpocetine suppressed the maximum response of NMDA and Gly without affecting their EC50 values. Unlike Mg2+, they did not affect the current-voltage relationship of the NMDA response below 0 mV. On the non-NMDA-type responses of the injected oocytes to kainate (KA), alpha-amino-3-hydroxy-5-methyl-4-isoxazolepropionate (AMPA) and quisqualate (QA), no significant effects were observed by these drugs at 100 microM. On the binding of [3H](+)-5-methyl-10,11-dihydro-5H-dibenzo[a,d]cyclohepten-5,10-imi ne (MK-801) to brain membranes, the estimated IC50 values were 88 microM for bifemelane, 102 microM for indeloxazine, and 115 microM for vinpocetine. The dissociation rate of [3H]MK-801 was significantly slowed by Zn2+ and vinpocetine, but not affected by bifemelane or indeloxazine. The Kd value for [3H]MK-801 binding was increased by bifemelane and indeloxazine while Bmax was unchanged. These results suggest that the inhibition of NMDA channels by vinpocetine shows a similarity to the action of Zn2+ which closes the gate of the NMDA channel. In contrast, bifemelane and indeloxazine may affect the phencyclidine (PCP)-site in the open channels and inhibit NMDA function.
" . . . THE ONLY WAY TO VALIDATE YOUR EXISTANCE IS TO ACCEPT THE REALITY OF YOUR NON-EXISTANCE . . . "

Iboga Panacea

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I can't decide if it is dangerous for me to have now? 

Offline JohnnyB.Goode

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short term
occasional
should be no problem
" . . . THE ONLY WAY TO VALIDATE YOUR EXISTANCE IS TO ACCEPT THE REALITY OF YOUR NON-EXISTANCE . . . "

Iboga Panacea

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What do you make of this JBG, in the sense of having Aya works for months on end and taking little bits of Vinpocetine?  Seems to be choice.

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The effects of vinpocetine on DA and DOPAC levels are not believed to be related to the well-demonstrated inhibitory effects on voltage sensitive Na+ channels, as "vinpocetine increases DOPAC release independently of the state of presynaptic VSSC." A possible MAO-A enhancing mechanism is ruled out "as vinpocetine fails to modify the inhibition of DOPAC formation caused by clorgyline" - a potent inhibitor of MAO-A, "indicating that a reserpine-like mechanism is involved in the vinpocetine-induced increase in DOPAC formation." (6)

I really don't know how to make sense of this kind of scientifical talk it's like tongue twisters for the brain and by the end I end up more confused then before. 

Offline JohnnyB.Goode

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i'm lost in all of this

i have yet to try it

but i do have a reliable chinese supplier who gets me all of the nootropics high quality cheap

(anyone can pm me for info)
" . . . THE ONLY WAY TO VALIDATE YOUR EXISTANCE IS TO ACCEPT THE REALITY OF YOUR NON-EXISTANCE . . . "

Offline JohnnyB.Goode

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Vinpocetine— is reported to have cerebral blood-flow enhancing and neuroprotective effects,and is used as a drug in Eastern Europe for the treatment of cerebrovascular disorders and age-related memory impairment. Also shown to inhibit voltage-sensitive Na+ channels—however, through a similar mechanism to reserpine, Vinpocetine may temporarily deplete the monoamines serotonin, dopamine and norepinephrine by inhibiting VMAT, thus preventing them from reaching the synapse. Vinpocetine may therefore induce or exacerbate depressive symptoms as an adverse effect. However, this effect tends to be reversible upon cessation of Vinpocetine administration, with full remission typically occurring within 3–4 weeks. Vinpocetine has been identified as a potent anti-inflammatory agent that might have a potential role in the treatment of Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease
" . . . THE ONLY WAY TO VALIDATE YOUR EXISTANCE IS TO ACCEPT THE REALITY OF YOUR NON-EXISTANCE . . . "

Offline JohnnyB.Goode

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vinpo has quite the kick to it......

not natural feeling and smooth like noopept

took vinpo with noopept and sulbutiamine - a definite hightened state of consciousness

but ...

Vinpocetine may also cause a temporary drop in blood pressure.

Vinpocetine shouldn’t be taken by pregnant or nursing women. The safety of vinpocetine in people with liver or kidney damage isn't known. People with bleeding disorders, low blood pressure or seizure disorders shouldn't use vinpocetine. It also shouldn't be used two weeks before or after a surgical or dental procedure.

There is one case report of agranulocytosis associated with the use of vinpocetine

Possible Drug Interactions

Vinpocetine shouldn’t be taken by people who are taking drugs or herbs that “thin” the blood (anticlotting or antiplatelet medications), such as aspirin, Plavix (clopidogrel), Ticlid (ticlopidine), (Trental) pentoxifylline, vitamin E, garlic or ginkgo. It should not be used with Coumadin (warfarin).
" . . . THE ONLY WAY TO VALIDATE YOUR EXISTANCE IS TO ACCEPT THE REALITY OF YOUR NON-EXISTANCE . . . "

Offline JohnnyB.Goode

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about 10 days on vinpo (with noopept - but you can to a degree isolate which is which in your experience)

 ;D

after the first few days, it becomes much smoother and natural
if noopept is like plugging the brain in
vinpo seems to be like changing my voltage from 110 to 220
the results also seems to be building
their is a definite increase in blood flow to the brain - lots
vision is much more accute
brain speed is much higher

(there seem to be some scientific reports across the web
re: vinpo's ability to help cure damage to the brain cause by drug abuse too
" . . . THE ONLY WAY TO VALIDATE YOUR EXISTANCE IS TO ACCEPT THE REALITY OF YOUR NON-EXISTANCE . . . "

Offline crazylife

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I was using Vinpo for a few months, a year or two ago. Apart from piracetam it was def the most intresting noot i used.
I remember reading back then that it's chemically related to LSD.
Pretty potent stuff, was only on 10mg per day, and apparently 5mg is enough for noticeable effects long term.

Offline JohnnyB.Goode

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" . . . THE ONLY WAY TO VALIDATE YOUR EXISTANCE IS TO ACCEPT THE REALITY OF YOUR NON-EXISTANCE . . . "

Offline BlueTiger

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I was using Vinpo for a few months, a year or two ago. Apart from piracetam it was def the most intresting noot i used.

Hi Crazylife:

May I ask why you stopped?  Both the Vinpo and the Piracetam?

Thanks,  Blue