Author Topic: Dealing with PAWS--nootropics help  (Read 2740 times)

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Offline fritzerman

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Dealing with PAWS--nootropics help
« on: March 04, 2013, 09:20:54 PM »
Blue tiger says PAWS is a broad category and to be specific. For me it's a total lack of motivation, feeling no joy, can't concentrate worth a damn, don't want to be around people or talk to anyone. Feels like fatigue and just want to lay down, but can't go to sleep either. I feel like I'm an empty shell. Some days I'll get a burst in the afternoon and do ok, but that is rare.

I got some Noopept but got a bad headache. I think maybe I dosed too high. I looked at the stack JohnnyB is trying. His results sound great. But do those results equate to relief from PAWS? Some benefits he describes, like better memory, would help, but what about motivation/mood? I think if I could get a little better mood and motivation going i think I could get into a routine and get away from dwelling on my ills.

Any ideas?

Offline BlueTiger

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Re: Dealing with PAWS--nootropics help
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2013, 10:43:29 PM »
Hey Fritzerman,

If the PAWS is that bad and full blown than you likely need more Iboga, Noopept probably isn't enough. 

IMO, if it's been at least 3 weeks since your flood you can start taking small doses again to fight the paws.  That's what the medicine does. 

CAUTION: Toxicity is your main issue/concern.  No one knows about long term effects of this drug.  If it has been at least a month since your flood, I would still consider MDing bark.

It seems that some good quality bark can really help with the PAWS....and there are many here who can chime in to this too.  There are varying doses and protocols.

You may benefit from another flood a few months from now or maybe just be fine with a "stacking" for a week or MDing for a few weeks protocol right now.....there a few different routes to go.  It all depends on you and what you are able and needing to do. 

MDing bark is most effective to me, to start at least....

I'll open the floor....








Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Dealing with PAWS--nootropics help
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2013, 11:26:31 AM »
Hey fritz!

I am zoned in on your anti- PAWS vibe, and I want you to know that people always seem to have way different responses to it - so before anything I hope you can remember to keep your chin up and find some comfort in the fact that every day it really IS going away. Bit by sadistic bit. It is an evil and sinister, totally unfair crock of shit if you want to know my opinion, because I have experienced post-iboga from both angles: basically totally free from any significant post acute mess, and also I have felt crushed underneath the stinking corpse of the dragon I just slayed with iboga. How's that for irony, eh?  >:(

It seems to be the little things...things many of us overlook or ignore, like exercise. Haven't been a fan in a long time, but it is the quickest way to push through and couple it with a real good diet, even without taking any more iboga it will expedite matters...

Unfortunately, there is no way to tell how long one must endure PAWS, and truthfully, it can be pretty damned severe. SUCK is the word that comes to mind. It pisses me off and then I am in danger of this deep, negative feedback loop...where I have found the flood to help in the time following is mainly in the changes of how I perceive PAWS. Sure, you can't really just ignore it until it flies away, because sometimes the symptoms are very strong (not fair at all) and when in the midst of such ongoing fatigue - it is easy to despair.

The energy/mood thing is my own personal arch enemy. I hate it - and it can be a hell of a pain to get through. It can feel like too much sometimes, if it gets that crazy, try a little root bark...if you already feel like hell, testing out a microdose seems like minimal risk. I would not rush into boosting necessarily - but that's just me. Some people get a second wind out of it - but I think it is best to hold off for a month before one does a moderate dose - I have been thinking about this alot lately myself: I just posted in another thread about how hard it can be to get it dialed-in after flooding, and if one needs or feels they need to take more medicine to round things out.

I know next to nothing about nootropics, other than how to spell it, so I am afraid I'm no good there, but there are other herbal things to look at. Plus, Tiger has been talking about minerals - this is waaay important. Especially calcium and magnesium - potassium helps for those long nights of intimate leg cramps. All in all, PAWS is a serious situation - it is a threat to our well being in the midst of what basically amounts to a 'healing crisis' in some of us. Depending on our native strengths, and capacities to endure totally unfair crap like that, it could drive us nuts. Keeping the correct attitude is the best thing we can do - hopefully (at least) - a session with iboga would have been powerful enough to reset some thinking patterns to helps us out here. It has worked this way for me, like a program running in the background all the time checking me before I get to the point of critical mass...a device that my brain was missing before the medicine.

Have you considered using some mushrooms? It does not necessarily have to be iboga that helps through the valley of PAWS, other tryptamines can be of great help. And subtle cues like music, man....music makes a huge difference to me - if you can, stay plugged in all the time for a week with whatever techno-device you favor, and find something that moves you and use that. Go for walks even if it sucks, because it will only suck for a while, listen to some music that stirs you deep down, try to remove your focus - cognitively - away from any physical duress. Because if you are at all like me, even the slightest focus on a symptom can zoom in like a laser beam and usurp all my attention. And with it goes whatever vestige of energy you got left. I know how shitty it feels to walk around like you are on fumes and have no reserve tanks - but as long as you keep trying like you are, reaching out to share like this with people, the Great Whatever will certainly not overlook this...really.

I am still half-inane myself and about 33% completely nuts, but I do not care a bit...not even a little bit. Because today I didn't sit in a basement full of smoke and bedbugs waiting for 'that asshole to hurry up and get here dammit!' so I could numb myself to the fact I was doing what I was doing....Jesus! They call that a paradox.

Wish I could deliver more than ill-attempted humor and really point something potent out to you - I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. I really believe you will discover something to help you out - look at some herbal tonics, shit - make up your own.... as long as they do not involve something you might have an 'issue' with, I can't see any issue with that. Harm reduction dude. Crawl -walk- run...whatever the case I will leave you with this little gem I was handed down: don't compare your beginning to someone else's middle (or something like that, you get the gist)

You have my blessings and best wishes ~ Cal

PS - I am compelled to consider Kambo in these situations, though I still have only done it once, and that was not after a flood. But it may well boost your energy levels back up and even more. I can't say what kind of help it would ultimately be for a severe case of PAWS, but I can promise you that it will one hell of an intermission no matter what. Luckily, I only have like two guys here I trust to apply it to me and so it can be a PITA to coordinate a session. I am going to do it again as soon as I get the yarbles, but its not killing me to wait either  ;D

Get heavy into looking for a solution, a natural solution to speed up the process, you will find it -  I have a strong feeling that if you keep focused on a solution the problem will just give up and you will have some relief. Keep going man!

" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline fritzerman

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Re: Dealing with PAWS--nootropics help
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2013, 09:00:50 PM »
Thanks BT and Cal. I only have HCL so will need to find the RB. IW has 300mg capsules that I assume is as good as any.

I have been taking the magnesium along with B vitamins. Been eating bananas regularly for potassium. Will add the calcium. I ordered some gotu kola after reading some recommendations on other sites. I realize there isn't any magic cure for the PAWS, but I keep looking. I have been walking as weather allows. It's such a bitch to get going to keep the focus off this ball and chain. Keep telling myself "and this too shall pass" and do something besides just sit here. Cal, it is indeed better than sitting in that smokey room waiting for "the guy". Not much, but better.

I'm going to push the exercise and get back on some light weights. There is a definite consensus on exercise and diet as being key. I've totally chucked junk food except for ice cream and a little chocolate (are these even "junk foods"?).

I am totally buying into the attitude change recommendations as the main tool to get through this mess. Thanks much for that guidance. Like every other mess I make, I have to clean it up. That's not unfair I realize, but it's not easy to avoid thinking that way.

Have you guys tried acupuncture? It appears to have potential to help the endorphin system. Finding the right therapist seems challenging. I'm far from racist, but am thinking someone Chinese.

There is someone here I also trust with kambo if I can get past the trepidation. The guy I trust says he thought he was going to die every time he has done it. Gives one pause. My wife has been very supportive of the whole iboga thing. Don't know how she will react to frog poison.

I would try the mushrooms but I don't have a source and am not likely to find one. When I first considered this suggestion I thought they where something I could buy online or at a health food store. BT or Lalababa set me straight on that naive misconception.

Thanks for the advise you guys. Look forward to joining you all on the other side of this journey someday. One day at a time.

Offline lalababa

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Re: Dealing with PAWS--nootropics help
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2013, 09:18:02 PM »
Fritzerman,  I wish you all the best.  I know the PAWS well,  in my personal experience,  I have to agree with Cal,  After my initial flood I took what I thought were boosters, but were really flood doses for my size, one two weeks after my flood then another two weeks later.  I think it may have prolonged my fatigue, but I do think it did knock out some PAWS.. but maybe not?  I think microdosing may have been better, It is hard to say, I did get a lot from those experiences..  It was still another month or more after those doses before I started to feel normal... I do know however that when I started using Kambo, they seemed to go away almost immediately.  Yes Kambo can be a bit frightening, but it wont kill you and I think that 15- 30 minutes of discomfort or pain even is well worth the rewards.

  If you stick with this and don't slip up, I can almost guarantee you will be feeling better before you know it... The more exercise the better.  Microdosing and running seem to be good, fun even. :)

lalababa

Offline BlueTiger

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Re: Dealing with PAWS--nootropics help
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2013, 09:25:22 PM »
Fritzerman,

I'm a big proponent of acupuncture.  Especially, if you find the right practitioner.  Find reviews, yelp, etc......I don't personally consider seeking Asian practitioners racist.    :P

You can start MDing the HCL (100mg max), but I think it's better used for a rainy day "microburst." 

I can't speak to the quality of IW's RB, I hope someone else can!!

All in all, "it" is sinking in it seems.  The idea of celebrating life, respecting the process of healing, and all the cognitive shifts that come with this particular major life-change is what will get you to the other side my friend.  Keep following the path and that idea will evolve into much more than physical manifestations, but into the renovated foundation that is: YOUR NEW EYESIGHT.  Eventually, I started to really love the resetting of my natural opiate system/endorphin/and my parasympathetic nervous system.  Get militant with it!  Love yourself and all the hard work you have done.  Even if you can only do it for a brief moment, that time will increase with practice and proof. 





Offline fritzerman

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Re: Dealing with PAWS--nootropics help
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 09:27:53 PM »
I have said before that I came to iboga without fear--due to desperation caused by the addiction. I'm close to losing the fear of kambo on the same basis. Thanks for your help and advise.

Offline fritzerman

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Re: Dealing with PAWS--nootropics help
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 09:30:08 PM »
Thanks BT. I'll find someone for the acupuncture soon.