Author Topic: Iboga and Mucuna Pruriens - F*ck Yeah!  (Read 9522 times)

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Offline Miss Demeanour

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Iboga and Mucuna Pruriens - F*ck Yeah!
« on: June 22, 2013, 06:46:17 AM »
Hi all,

just wanted to report that I have figured out how to avoid the negativity/anger/depression that has sometimes crept up on me when microdosing - I saw that some other ppl here had similar issues, so thought I'd post it.

I have low dopamine levels (probably hereditary) and since Iboga lowers dopamine, it left me somewhat depleted, which was the reason for these symptoms. So before my current cycle, I pre-loaded with Mucuna pruriens (L-Dopa) for a few days and WOW! It has made my time with Iboga from difficult into absolutely f*ckin sublime! I sat with around a gram of RB and some good herb yesterday and it was the most euphoric, loving and beautiful experience. Deep wisdom and insight and a totally new appreciation of music. Amazing.

Word of caution: do absolutely NOT try this if you have high dopamine to start with - it could result in mania or schizophrenic-like symptoms (same effect as in cocaine or amphetamine psychosis). If in doubt, you can get a medical test for this.

So now I was wondering: so far I've only pre-loaded but not taken the Ibo and the Mucuna at the same time. I'm wondering if that could have negative effects. Does anyone have info or experiences with Ibo and dopamine precursors (also Tyrosine, altho that doesn't seem to work for me)?

Bestest wishes.


Offline beholder

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Re: Iboga and Mucuna Pruriens - F*ck Yeah!
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2013, 11:47:55 AM »
Did you sleep pattern was ok , before combining ibo + dopa?  Thanx


Beh

Offline Miss Demeanour

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Re: Iboga and Mucuna Pruriens - F*ck Yeah!
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2013, 12:35:52 PM »
Hi,

my sleep pattern was amazing since my last microdose cycle, then about 3 weeks after my last Iboga I stupidly stuck my nose in some white powder and messed it up. I had anhedonia for about 10 days, 5HTP wasn't helping, so tried the Mucuna, that did.

Offline Miss Demeanour

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Re: Iboga and Mucuna Pruriens - F*ck Yeah!
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2013, 12:38:30 PM »
edit: by "messed up" I mean, I could go to sleep ok but could not get out of bed in the morning and took a long while to wake up, hence why I thought it was dopamine related.

Offline beholder

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Re: Iboga and Mucuna Pruriens - F*ck Yeah!
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2013, 01:15:32 PM »
Hi .Only to explain something people that use cocain produce more endogenous endorphines and vice versa, the ibo tries to balance that but in the long run, like hormones , the cycle to be fixed it is needed 6 month patient period

Beh

Offline Miss Demeanour

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Re: Iboga and Mucuna Pruriens - F*ck Yeah!
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2013, 01:58:24 PM »
The annoying thing is, I don't usually do coke, but where I was it was free and plenty, so thought, why not...well, now I know why not. Nasty, horrible stuff.

I guess I had kind of a protracted comedown, but with my underlying imbalance that can slide into depression pretty quickly. So hoping I can sort out the damage from just one use with this cycle.

I'll let you know if it works...

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Iboga and Mucuna Pruriens - F*ck Yeah!
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2013, 07:54:37 PM »
Hi MissDemeanour - interesting thread, quite different from the normal fare...I like  ;)

I do SO realize it is no laughing matter my friend, but your words in your last post about cocaine:

The annoying thing is, I don't usually do coke, but where I was it was free and plenty, so thought, why not...well, now I know why not. Nasty, horrible stuff.

I'm sorry sister, but I busted out laughing  - hehe! God, that is SO realistical, I swear it is me to a "T"...I could be reviling that shit on a fifty foot soapbox but let someone drop in with an eight-ball and pass it around for free, hmmmph...suddenly I am not only forgetting my moral superiority - I am extolling the virtues of this wretched crap and philosophizing my inane coke-speak to any ear within my proximity. Ahh, gotta love the irony.

I know pretty much zilch on the subject of dopamine, at least concerning this topic - and reading your opening post I found myself surprised that I did a double-take when I read what you wrote about ibogaine lowering dopamine levels. Either I did not know this at all (about a 71% chance) or I totally forgot it (we'll give that an equal 71% chance too) in any case I should brush up on the state of the art empirical data and review the stuff that is out there, if anything I would have expected iboga would either gently raise endogenous dopamine or just leave it alone altogether. I know that it is more along the lines of a serotonin 'mimetic' tryptamine and so will have some obvious affects on that system, but although both the serotonin and dopimenergic systems 'play off each other' they somehow exist separately and 'cross over' type drugs like the SNRI classes are the only ones I am aware of that deliberately target both places simultaneously. Of course we can do things like 'candyflip' (LSD + MDMA) or other phenethylamine+tryptamine combos to exogenously modulate these levels, I realize the goal here is to eventually reach a natural homeostasis with as little outside influence as possible.

Please Miss, and or any other members, elaborate and share on this topic, thanks for the cool thread - a valuable addition to our library!

Rock on... 8)

PS - I'm in total agreement that you experienced 'a protracted comedown' - this is always the case if I mess with that crap, maybe cocaine would be interesting if it lasted ten hours, but...it DON'T. Even if you DO IT FOR TEN HOURS...

Oh, nice use of the word 'anhedonia' I like your style.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2013, 07:56:55 PM by Calaquendi »
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline Miss Demeanour

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Re: Iboga and Mucuna Pruriens - F*ck Yeah!
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2013, 07:43:05 AM »
@ Calaquendi, you’ll laugh even harder when I tell you that before Ibo, I only did Coke twice and it had next to no effect on me. I suppose it works by blocking the Dopamine receptor so that dopamine levels in the brain rise and give you a rush – only if there is too little dopamine in the body to start with, that won’t do much. After Ibo, on the other hand....
Something is seriously going in the wrong direction here :-)

Re Ibo and dopamine, yeah, it seems to do two things: in the one hand it speeds up dopamine metabolism (more dopamine metabolites means less dopamine) and so lowers the total amount of dopamine in the body, as it says here for example:

Quote
Though ibogaine does not appear to affect binding at dopamine receptors or transporters (Broderick, Phelan, and Berger, 1992), it has been found to reduce extracellular levels of dopamine in the nucleus accumbens (Glick and Maisonneuve, 1998; Glick et al., 1999). Ibogaine effects on dopamine metabolites appear to be inconsistent. When measurements are taken shortly after administration (within 2 hours), or when high concentrations are used (greater than 100 uM), increases in dihydroxyphenyl-acetic acid (DOPAC) and homovanilic acid (HVA) are seen (Maisonneuve, Keller, and Glick, 1991; Maisonneuve, Rossman, Keller and Glick, 1992; Sershen, Hashim, Harsing, and Lajtha, 1992). However, when lower concentrations are used (e.g. 10 uM) or measurements are taken after a longer period of time (up to a week), dopamine brain concentrations remain unchanged, and metabolite concentrations decrease (Maisonneuve, Keller, and Glick, 1991; Shershen, Hashim, Harsing, and Lajtha, 1992).

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ibogaine/ibogaine_article3.shtml

On the other, it is technically an SSRI and like you said, all SSRIs can lower dopamine because serotonin and dopamine compete for docking space at the synapse. That is why some doctors prescribe dopaminergic drugs in combo with SSRIs. See here:

Quote
A mechanism to explain relapse unique to SSRI antidepressant treatment remains uncertain. Recently, McGrath and colleagues[5] proposed that relapse during SSRI maintenance may arise from the SSRI-induced depletion of dopamine in the striatum and limbic forebrain. In a preliminary open study of SSRI augmentation with the dopamine agonist bromocriptine, 6 of 12 (intent-to-treat) patients fully regained remissions from depressive symptoms.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/431524
(There's plenty more studies but can't be arsed to google them now - if you look for SSRI and dopamine depletion you'll also find a lot of anecdotal stories)

Both is probably less of an issue when one floods – you do it once and then recover. The lower level of dopamine in that case probably causes the receptors to become more sensitive, so once the body replenishes dopamine, it is subjectively higher than before. But if one microdoses for a prolonged period of time that replenishing might not happen enough and that could cause some unforeseen side effects like we have seen on this board.

(This is all total armchair neuroscience btw, I am in no way qualified).

On the other hand, this might mean that Ibo could actually be quite successful in pulling someone out of a psychosis. I’m not recommending this, just saying it is theoretically possible.

Had 1200mg rootbark yesterday and towards evening was getting this “bombed-out” low dopamine feeling – fatigue, muscle aches, light tremor (mini-Parkinson’s). So today it is Mucuna time and seeing if I can fill back up. Tbc!

Offline beholder

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Re: Iboga and Mucuna Pruriens - F*ck Yeah!
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2013, 11:14:51 AM »
The subject you are getting into is so interesting, not only does that ibo re does your natural homeostasis, but it does that in an uplifting upregulating manner, that means when you flood all the centers dope, sero, etc go to the stars , it says that acts like fenfluaramine like manner (MDMA), but it regulates up and then (this is afterglow), in order to keep it to the max levels exercise + md. This is the perfect combination  your head will be much above the normal situation plus NO Come down. That is it . My 2c

P.S. DLPA aminoacid promotes production of dopamine and endorphines


Beh
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 11:17:02 AM by beholder »

Offline Miss Demeanour

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Re: Iboga and Mucuna Pruriens - F*ck Yeah!
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2013, 07:54:07 AM »
...and two days and copious amounts of Mucuna later gone are the symptoms AND the anhedonia and I'm a happy bunny! Hows that for a bug-fix  :)

I also noticed that while/after microdosing, some mild symptoms of SSRI withdrawal can set in (dizziness, spaced-out feeling, not real "brain-zaps" but something close) - the 5HTP sorted this out for me.

With this regime I guess I can use microdoses for regular "brain-washing" purposes :-)

Offline Alexandra Lost

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Re: Iboga and Mucuna Pruriens - F*ck Yeah!
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2013, 10:32:59 PM »
The annoying thing is, I don't usually do coke, but where I was it was free and plenty, so thought, why not...well, now I know why not. Nasty, horrible stuff.

Yeah, I went to a party like that once upon a time. If I recall correctly, it started in 1984 and ended in 1987.

Offline Alexandra Lost

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Re: Iboga and Mucuna Pruriens - F*ck Yeah!
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2013, 11:26:55 AM »
Hi MissDemeanour - interesting thread, quite different from the normal fare...I like  ;)

Oh, nice use of the word 'anhedonia' I like your style.

Fun factoid
If you plug the words Ann Hedonia into a Google image search one of the first results is an IRL pic of me.

Offline Miss Demeanour

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Re: Iboga and Mucuna Pruriens - F*ck Yeah!
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2013, 05:40:09 AM »
Ah I see. Very impressive facial hair ;-)


Offline Alexandra Lost

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Re: Iboga and Mucuna Pruriens - F*ck Yeah!
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2013, 04:13:37 PM »
Hi all,

just wanted to report that I have figured out how to avoid the negativity/anger/depression that has sometimes crept up on me when microdosing - I saw that some other ppl here had similar issues, so thought I'd post it.

I have low dopamine levels (probably hereditary) and since Iboga lowers dopamine, it left me somewhat depleted, which was the reason for these symptoms. So before my current cycle, I pre-loaded with Mucuna pruriens (L-Dopa) for a few days and WOW! It has made my time with Iboga from difficult into absolutely f*ckin sublime! I sat with around a gram of RB and some good herb yesterday and it was the most euphoric, loving and beautiful experience. Deep wisdom and insight and a totally new appreciation of music. Amazing.

Bestest wishes.

I'll try that sometime.

Another thought about the anger/negativity/ depression....................

I've had this come on several times lately but it all goes back to the need to DEAL with your feelings instead of numbing and dumbing them down with drugs.  There is, in my case, usually an external situation that I am angry about or negative about and it has been difficult since I stopped taking drugs ( 4 WEEKS TODAY, YAY!!! ). I used to just suck it up if I felt I was wronged or bullied or whatever then took some drugs to make me feel better. Now I have to examine the reasons for these negative feelings and deal with them....which sometimes means figuring out the root feelings and the reason for my overreaction and if I legitimately determine that I'm not really overreacting much then I need to deal with the people that are pushing my buttons in a constructive manner.
 
Damn, that's been the hardest part of all this. Staying clean is easy when you have the glow on and everything is going smoothly but it gets way harder when life gets real.

Offline beholder

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Re: Iboga and Mucuna Pruriens - F*ck Yeah!
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2013, 06:08:06 AM »
Ibo promotes responsibilities the main is to take care yourself and other unfortunately in a healthy manner , you are doing well keep analyzing and solve the problems , your approach is the only one , yes life sucks and we do a lot of errors unfortunately , but we can reset them gradually , i have done BIG mistakes, try to keep it up ,for this kind of problems aya or psilo is better to have them deep analyzed , never is to late


Beh
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 06:09:54 AM by beholder »