Author Topic: rip offs, etc  (Read 4097 times)

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RavAv

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rip offs, etc
« on: May 10, 2010, 11:47:08 AM »
this is my latest discussion post on our facebook page - iboga the techiyas hamayseem project.
 i felt it important to also share it here.
feel free to respond with your positive or negative experiences either here or there

RIP OFF - BEWARE
PLEASE do your research BEFORE choosing a facilitator or clinic. There are those out there hwo may not have pure motivation OR may not know what they are doing. Please read these, send in your own experiences and check out who you are going to do iboga / ibogaine with - ASK FOR REFERENCES 1) "I just got back on Thursday, from XXXXXX, XXXXX, where an ibogaine treatment center promised to help me, but they only gave me 1 gram of ibogaine that did not work at all and they charged me $7000 for a 3 day stay. They gave me morphine right after the ibogaine knowing I was in withdrawal. The whole experience was horrible." 2) ""it was all a placebo and the following morning ,XXXX told me the session was aborted because he and XXXXX thought it too risky to do in the hotel room. no explanation was given but my 1,300 dollars was taken by . . . When I asked, What about the money i gave XXXXXX in good faith and the session that i never got? "Its 'gone, the money is gone" was XXXXX final words. i felt betrayed. I knew ther were risks,but not this." 3) a lady told me that during her treatment her sport car was used for joy riding while she was in the Hotel room, since it was a fancy BMW and the sitter was in his early 20ies he took her car for fun. 4) I had paid an advance and they kept on asking me when I was going to pay. Also they didn't respond on my emails and it gave the impression that they didn't communicate well with each other what was decided through email with me. 5) Before we where going to do the Ibogaine, we had to go for a medical check up. This was an enormous mess, it took us one and a half day to return back because they didn't organise it well.

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: rip offs, etc
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2010, 01:06:06 PM »
Caveat Emptor

Good post Rav - research, research research. Invaluable and possibly life saving,
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline x

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Re: rip offs, etc
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2010, 12:11:31 AM »
I've heard things similar to this and will also add that there are now allegations that a woman was molested while under Iboga.

Terrifying, that.

One cannot expect an active addict to be the best judge of character, most particularly when the promise of Iboga is before them. They want to trust and want to believe. Who wouldn't? What is the solution?

Research, yes, what else?

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: rip offs, etc
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2010, 12:43:49 AM »
A chaperon or 'attendant' is always a good idea - if nothing else it is another witness to how these particular sessions are implemented. Word of mouth is everything. Having a trusted friend to come along would be a security boon for sure. I think another set of eyes on potential providers from the perspective of one who is not being treated would be great. This is not always feasible I realize - but just tossing ideas out.
" I am you and what I see is me..."

RavAv

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Re: rip offs, etc
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2010, 01:38:03 AM »
Another important factor to look at is: who is the provider. most providers seem to be ex-addicts; and i can give testimony that some of the most together people I have ever met are addicts in recovery. On the other hand - the old adage - "how do you know when an addict is lying? - his lips are moving" also is too often true. so look careful at the provider - how long have they been clean? are they truly in recovery? do they work on themselves? how? for how long? what do they do in their spare time? is this the person you want to be fully vulnerable with and trust to guide and watch you while in "iboga land"? these are just a few questions. on the other hand - there are many providers who have never done iboga themselves ! how many times has the provider done iboga? are they personally familiar with all of the various doses? have they tamed the "wild bronco"? (iboga MUST be respected, but are they comforatble with it? are they afraid of it?) just a few questions you ask before you undertake what could be the most significant experience of your life.

fallout330

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Re: rip offs, etc
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2010, 11:27:22 AM »
Nice advice here! :D

Offline x

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Re: rip offs, etc
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2010, 11:02:19 PM »
Rav, wait, what?
There are MANY providers who haven't taken Iboga? I don't know of a one. Are these mostly clinical people? Does Israel have an underground?
That kind of blows me away.

Excellent points on what q's to bring up.

I keep thinking it may be time for a voluntary organization of providers who are ethical, experienced, peer reviewed (Hi Eon! ;), and post Iboga themselves. This brings up so many issues of control, though. Like, who sets the standards, and all the rigamarole that goes into an 'exclusive' club. Again, in my forays into acceptance and discernment are teaching me that 'exclusive' is not always 'jugemental' and 'bad'. I'm still thinking about this.

T

RavAv

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Re: rip offs, etc
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2010, 04:35:51 AM »
mostly clinical
as for organization / certification / etc etc
sounds possible but at 50, persna experience tells me to laugh
who will run it?
which perspective? bwiti / clinical / shamanism
just for detox or all uss
what uses?
what are you allowed to use? only HCL or TA or root bark?
how many times do you have to do it?
how much are you allowed to charge?
do you have to flood dose each year to renew your liscense?
how many years do you have to be clean?
are you allowed to use substances recreational?
alcohol?
ganja?
do you need to have a dr.?
pulse and heart monitors? :o

Offline x

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Re: rip offs, etc
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2010, 10:54:50 PM »
Seriously, Rav.
That's my quandary.

Laugh away, it may be catching. ;)

I'll just chill.

Back to rip offs, etc.

We had a thread way back when that talked about how much a treatment should cost. I think it ended up that around 2k was fair. But that's for underground.

I've been to a clinic in MX, I can plainly see there's massive overhead. It would be interesting to learn exactly what the monthly costs are for a clinic.

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: rip offs, etc
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2010, 02:00:53 AM »
I think it would be prudent to put more effort into cultivation of iboga in the Western hemisphere. It seems like there have been some attempts made but I do not know if they are large scale or what...this would reduce material costs by huge margins and having an abundance of medicine at our disposal, without need for overseas and third party vendors, would cut some of the unscrupulous black marketers out. I realize that some farms in Africa make their livings this way but I have heard of 'global shortages' etc and it seems to me this would be a win-win situation. We do not have to have an entire farm - just a few greenhouses maybe, I don't know. But it seems like this will become inevitable if we wish to continue growing and promoting the use of this medicine. It would afford an operative assurance that most of us have not had the luxury to experience in these endeavors - making certain that the responsibility of quality control is well placed and consistent.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 02:02:46 AM by calaquendi »
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline x

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Re: rip offs, etc
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2010, 11:38:37 AM »
Here's what I heard from someone who gets in the fields: 50kg fresh root = 100g TA.
Yes, time for cultivation.

Land in a tropical place or very warm makes most sense, keeping a greenhouse very warm and moist all winter is a big energy draw. There were a couple people looking into land for growing, but the country's local gov. was a PIA. I don't see why it can't work *somewhere*.

T


Offline roy d

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Re: rip offs, etc
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2010, 04:41:10 PM »


Don't you need a lot of plants to get the
root bark, I mean a whole lot just to get a
few grams of RB then a few grams of TA?

 Roy

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: rip offs, etc
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2010, 05:14:55 PM »
Well, I would think grabbing 50 grams of bark off of an older tree would be pretty feasible..  The problem is the very mature trees with nice amounts of bark take 10+ years to grow to a size where one might collect enough bark..  I have no experience, but judging from how much 50 grams of bark looks, it doesn't seem like it would be that much, considering the huge root systems these trees are supposed to have..  Also, if the bark is at 4-6% alkaloids, then from 1000 grams (1 kilogram) of root bark, one should get 40-60 grams of PURE total alkaloids..  I know with some bark harvesting of other plants it's possible to collect the bark from some roots without killing the plant.  Not sure how it works precisely with iboga..
« Last Edit: June 25, 2010, 05:17:47 PM by GratefulDad »
GratefulDad

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Offline x

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Re: rip offs, etc
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2010, 05:38:54 PM »
Hey dad,

Little bits I know, some who are harvesting the root to make money quickly (to serve the demand for iboga) are ripping up whole shrubs/trees. Others, who use it themselves sacramentally, harvest a portion of the roots. One supplier I know uses farmed plants and only takes a portion of the roots at a time (BRAVO!!!).
Please ask your suppliers how their roots are harvested, if they're wild or farmed, is it sustainable? It's no joke that there are shortages.
I know many don't like to think about how our consumption affects like pond ripples, but I'm putting it out there.

T