Author Topic: Getting stuck / Incomplete or Partial Flood issues  (Read 2421 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline DiamondHeart

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Getting stuck / Incomplete or Partial Flood issues
« on: March 22, 2014, 08:27:08 PM »
Given the events that have transpired over the last few days, I would like to start a thread dealing with experiences folks have had where a true flood wasn't achieved. I recall some posts that have mentioned feelings of being stuck and other mental and physical issues. I think this is an important area to explore, learn from each other and most importantly, educate others so that they have a better idea of what can occur on iboga.

When I attempted my one and only flood, I was taking a couple of grams of RB each hour and my blood pressure and heart rate went through the roof. I remember my heart pounding so hard, I thought it was going to burst, I could almost feel it hitting my sternum. I also experienced some trembling as if I was freezing and while my body temp did probably drop a little, it was not enough to explain the severity of the trembling. Once I started purging, the trembling and sense of being cold stopped and my heart rate started to go down.

I have been told by numerous people that one of the ways you can experience purification on aya is by trembling/shaking - purging is by far the most common method but it is just one of many avenues purification can take. So, to some degree, its possible that the same thing is happening on iboga, the shaking is a form of purification. However, extended and/or much more intense shaking could be a sign of something else going on that isn't good, like an entity attaching itself or past trauma being brought up that the person doesn't have the ability to deal with.

What are your thoughts on this?

What sort of things can happen when the dose is insufficient to break through?

If this has happened to you, what was your experience?

Please ask more questions if this is of interest to you and post your experience if you have had an experience of being stuck or had an incomplete/partial flood.

Take care out there - there's only one of each of you in the universe and you are all precious.

Iboga Panacea

  • Guest
Re: Getting stuck / Incomplete or Partial Flood issues
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2014, 10:52:56 PM »
The trembling shaking to me with what I've now observed over and over again from a multitude of people with mainly Daime but also Iboga is a lack of owning the temple/body.  Because one hasn't yet learned how to master the body/temple/aparehlo/vessel and hold firm as the founder of the Santo Daime Mestre Irineu says over and over again, outside forces and entities have there way.  Once one owns the body then there is not more shaking or you can say no to that energy.  It took me years to develop this and only over the last year can I actually take control to not shake with Aya or Ibo.  Kambo on the other hand is a direct medium and I trust it completely so I don't resist it's energy.  I realize my take on this is subjective but I will say that I've seen it over and over again and also talked with a lot of people about it so at least for now I'm fairly confident in the entity/possession theory which can also just be called electrical volts of pulsating energy. 

I was warned from the spiritual school I came from that the reason they don't encourage entheogens is because it opens the chakras and outside forces can penetrate.  I can find some quotes from that tradition and it might make some sense as well.  While I respect that tradition and it's warnings I also think that if one is really determined to own there vessel that they can do it while using entheogens and prevent things like trembling, crying, wailing, suffering or anything other than being still in the presence of God/higher power. 

Iboga Panacea

  • Guest
Re: Getting stuck / Incomplete or Partial Flood issues
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2014, 10:58:45 PM »
I should rephrase, not a lack of owning the body in general but a lack of owning the body while under the force of the medicine.  So even if a person has a mastery over meditation or another concentration I'm not sure or not if that translates to if they could fully be still under the force of medicine.  For me it took practicing this under the force over and over again until I could finally manage to resist outside influences. 

Once stillness is completely reached the teachings are pure and direct, I've definitely noticed that.  It is said that Mestre Irineu never moved at all and received so much valuable grounded teachings because of his sheer concentrated focus.  So the best advice I could give is to not budge a mm. 

Offline ddraig

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
    • View Profile
Re: Getting stuck / Incomplete or Partial Flood issues
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2014, 01:31:26 PM »
disclaimer: these are just my own views at this point in time.

Judging from my own experience, and what I have read from others that have taken sub-flood doses, you can have amazing healing experiences, saying that others have had hellish experiences. If you are serious about this medicine and feel called to it, then a flood dose is what you should do taking it first time. My breakthrough experience was my first flood, everything was just 'right', the time I took it, where I was in my life etc... Think a lot of it rests on your relationship with the plant alley, your respect for it, but not only that, its also how the plant alley gets on with the person taking it, which IMHO, is the calling.

Just taking it because it sounds cool is extremely risky and I am with Kampum, these allies work on the spiritual/subtle energies as well as physical. Perhaps lower doses meeting deep issues and lack or respect means iboga will not be there to protect you enough? I've always felt reassurance from Iboga, but I have also felt its wrath when I have taken it without preparation or for selfish means. Yet, it was always there. My 2 times taking an ayahasuca analogue I felt far more aware of and exposed to distinct entities, but this could be due to my cavalierness and lack of respect in hindsight.

From the animistic  point of view of the pygmies and bwiti, and other cultures based in shamanism, everything has spirit/spiritual energy and everything is connected, thoughts can take an energy or life of their own in these realms (sometimes called thought forms or egregores). When seen in these realms Negativity/trauma can manifest as dark entities (like a coiled snake), or blockages connected to someone. Then there are distinct spiritual entities themselves that can interact, attach or possess.
When healers journey (via plant alley or other means), the shamanic practitioner did for me, they become a 'hollow bone' for benevolent spiritual entities which then through the shaman, interact and remove the blockages/entities that came from past trauma or negativity/fear or unhealthy attachments/beliefs. Part of the process was then telling me what was removed and why it was there, along with a message from spirit, in the form of an affirmation or prayer.

Similarly iboga, IMO, allows the taker to be a 'hollow bone'. It  got me to see my own issues clearly, and to meet them head on, and so the energetic purge, be it peeing, throwing up, shaking and crying to me is a release of psychic energy, and generally part of the healing. Its like a transformer where the negative thoughtform/blockage gets downgraded to be expelled or something. Perhaps this is iboga pushing it out? One thing I have learned with iboga is having a clear intent or request going in WILL get answered in some form. In my journal the 'archbishop' entity I saw after a purge was a release of my deep beliefs I had harbored due to dogma learned in childhood. Since then my spiritual pursuits are not mired in that guilt that was holding me back. So in that way, I have seen commonalities in my journeying with iboga and that with drum & rattle, intent, ritual and respect is absolutely key. You may not 'get' or like what you see either! As Michael Harner said, they are just different ways to access the same realms.


« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 02:00:53 PM by ddraig »

Offline DiamondHeart

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: Getting stuck / Incomplete or Partial Flood issues
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2014, 02:29:59 PM »
Great post ddraig!

I don't think there is one right answer to this issue that's why I'm interested in hearing people's experiences.

I have experienced the sort of trembling I had on iboga in regular daily life due to the situation I found myself in triggering childhood trauma. What I'm working on in therapy right now are ways to titrate the experience so that I'm exposed to it but it doesn't trigger the trembling. Think of it like someone who has a phobia for being in the water. Even if they were in the shallow end of a swimming pool, they'd freak out. However, putting them in a kiddie pool with 2 inches of water, they adapt and you can increase the depth of the water at a slow enough rate that they can adjust without the phobia coming in - hence the term titration.

I like the "not owning the body" concept - an analogy might be of being in the flat bed of a pick up truck while being driven down a very bumpy road - you get tossed all over the place. After a while, the lightbulb goes on and you decide to sit behind the driver in the cab with your seatbelt on - you're still being taken for a ride but the experience is not throwing you off balance.

I have never "crossed the veil" on aya so I feel like all the purging, twitching and subtle trembling that I experienced in my one really intense dark experience was a form of purification - the entity concept just doesn't feel like it matches my experience. After that ceremony, I have never experienced the deep dark states of depression that drove me to take aya in the first place - it really felt like aya brought up that unpleasant mind state for me and was scrubbing it clean, well at least getting the worst of the crap of

Interesting topic that's for sure.

Iboga Panacea

  • Guest
Re: Getting stuck / Incomplete or Partial Flood issues
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2014, 02:57:38 PM »
The most vital topic even in my present condition.  I notice that the owning of the body is not something one can bank on.  Been going through a series of difficult events over the past month and taking a break from medicines and I can only presume that when I resume I won't have the control that I did before. 

I was getting really good at owning my body and could even tell myself not to purge and my body would listen and digest it.  Was pretty stunning as I could literally feel it moving down my system instead of coming out and then the next day would come out the other end. 

I'm really interested to read books on mediumistic practices in Africa, might explain a lot of what we experience in these realms.  It's a big deal in the Santo Daime (the incorporation thing) I for one do not engage in it but I want to protect myself by any means necessary.  Like I said I've seen some crazy possession stuff over the past year and a half, all seemingly because the person couldn't say no to the lower spirit trying to knock on their door. 

It's weird being fundamentally opposed to something but also wanting to learn more and more about it, but that's where I find myself.  I heard recently that Tatayo from Ebando had said in that movie "sick birds" that always there is an entity helping out (or harming I would presume) but once your initiated into Bwiti you are directly connected to the source.  Also seeing how once one feels a sincere call to the Bwiti it seems to be a spiritual emergency maybe this is to protect there soul and assure a safe passage. 

I know this is off topic but also after these recent traumatic events I was crying and shaking for 3 hours straight from 6am-9am and had to be at work at 10am, I took a pinch of Iboga and somehow someway was able to get a hold of myself.  I think if you are really connected to Iboga and have that faith in it that it can help you to gain control too.  Not too much though as I realize that having too much Iboga for too long can be extremely counterproductive. 

I know the Bwiti take these minor flood doses and they have a name for it in order to tap into the ceremony when someone is initiated.  It's like Iboga gives you permission or something and says ok you already passed the test so your welcome to embark again. 

Offline ddraig

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
    • View Profile
Re: Getting stuck / Incomplete or Partial Flood issues
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2014, 03:11:51 PM »

Interesting topic that's for sure.

It is. I know what you mean about the scrubbing, & so glad you that that aya session provided major life changing healing for you.

Sounds like you are using Peter Levine's Somatic Experiencing? Been reading through his latest book. Bringing this suppressed stuff out into the open to be experienced, to allow the patient to get it out so they can feel whole again.

It is interesting stuff indeed and a deep topic. 
« Last Edit: March 23, 2014, 03:13:44 PM by ddraig »

Offline DiamondHeart

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
    • View Profile
Re: Getting stuck / Incomplete or Partial Flood issues
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2014, 03:17:45 PM »
The most vital topic even in my present condition.  I notice that the owning of the body is not something one can bank on.  Been going through a series of difficult events over the past month and taking a break from medicines and I can only presume that when I resume I won't have the control that I did before. 

I was getting really good at owning my body and could even tell myself not to purge and my body would listen and digest it.  Was pretty stunning as I could literally feel it moving down my system instead of coming out and then the next day would come out the other end. 
Diego told me 2 stories that I think apply here:

1) After so many years of taking aya, he no longer purges. One evening just before a ceremony, he rather proudly proclaimed to someone attending the ceremony that he no longer purges - he needed his bucket big time that night!

2) In order to understand what it would be like for someone who had taken a lot of aya, he drank something like the equivalent of what he'd give to 10 people. He needed to get up and go to the toilet but knowing that he'd taken so much aya, he expected to be wobbly on his feet and so he was. When he got to the door of the mallocca, he remembered a saying something like "you are what you think" and he realized that he was in control of how he felt - he instinctively waved his arm in front of his face and he was immediately sober. Really supports the owning the body theory.


I know this is off topic but also after these recent traumatic events I was crying and shaking for 3 hours straight from 6am-9am and had to be at work at 10am, I took a pinch of Iboga and somehow someway was able to get a hold of myself.
Sorry to hear that - hope you're doing OK

Offline Ali Bongo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Getting stuck / Incomplete or Partial Flood issues
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2018, 07:39:33 AM »
Hi, I'm new here but I have some experience of what I now believe were 4 sub-flood / partial flood experiences on retreats using the root back (next time I will be using TA at home with an experienced sitter and making sure I do FULL flood).
After all my partial floods I experienced benefits but also some experience of being 'stuck' afterwards in life. What got me past being stuck was water-only fasting (I did it for 7 days and 10 days 4/5 months apart). Even though the fasts were 2 and 6/7 months after iboga I could feel the iboga working through me on the fast. Each night was like medicine night (especially on the first one). I could feel the healing going on in my body and my mind. After the fast, my feeling of 'stuckness' had gone, I felt a clearer mind, it was sharp, there was no procrastination and dramatically reduced addictive habits. I couldn't remember feeling better. It's as if the fast allowed the iboga which was still present in my body to finish what it had started. If anyone gets stuck after iboga I would recommend looking into water-only-fasting. I looked up the work of Dr Alan Goldhamer to make sure I was doing it right and doing it safely.
Also, during the sub-flood experiences themselves I felt quite stuck, repeating the same visions over and over again and literally coming up against the same walls over and over again. I feel that a full flood will take me beyond this because my ego-mind will have less ability to resist the iboga, so maybe there will be no need top fast in the months after the experience.

Offline RhythmSpring

  • Global Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 472
    • View Profile
Re: Getting stuck / Incomplete or Partial Flood issues
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2018, 10:59:19 AM »
Ali Bongo, your experience aligns with mine!!! When I fast, I feel the presence of iboga. It might be because there is still some noribogaine lingering in my fat, and when I fast, my body breaks my fat down, releasing noribogaine. But aside from technical interpretations, something about emptying thyself resonates with the iboga spirit for sure.

Fasting, when done properly, is very rejuvenating. For now I am doing intermittent fasting (mainly going to bed on an empty stomach), because I'm skinny af.

Peace!