Author Topic: Hello...intoduction, opioids, now kratom...then iboga?  (Read 2912 times)

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Offline Amanitadine

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Hello...intoduction, opioids, now kratom...then iboga?
« on: February 17, 2014, 03:36:30 PM »
Hello all

I have been reading through all of these threads for some time, and have been fascinated with Iboga for over twenty years. I devoted a good portion of my life to entheogens...the taking of, distribution of, creation of.....to the point of having to pay dearly, ie with my time. Anyways, I am very well versed in the alphabet soup brigade, as well as a myriad of natural substances. I am a male in mid-late 30's, and my psychedelic soapbox sacrament has been replaced with something far less rewarding....quite taxing really...opioids...what a surprise, eh?

I first sampled opioids as codeine in cough syrup form, at about age 14, the same age as I was discovering marijuana, mushrooms, LSD, etc.....I made no distinction at the time. My mother was heavy into opioids - she has been on methadone maintenance for over 35 years, but I didn't know this at the time. I just knew when shit hit the fan, ie she start smoking crack, blacking out on xanax, etc. Otherwise she was just my mother, a poor struggling unambitious woman full of sympathy and love but a master manipulator. As my journey into opioids got deeper years later her behavior made a lot more sense to me. At the time it was just, "oh, mom is on drugs again. Better not go visit". My parents divorced when I was two....mom time was on weekends, when she wasn't too wrecked. My father was a brilliant but emotionally detached man.....great father, so encouraging of intellectual pursuits, but he had his own demons..

Anyways, the codeine cough syrup......I felt "at home" for the first time in my life. Bliss! Despite my mothers perpetual issues with drugs, my father did not discourage my experimenting with psychedelics...encouraged it actually. I was growing fungi in and outside the house at age 15 (I grew up in the Pacific Northwest, a haven for native psilocybes), doing extractions way before it was commonplace, and when I began experimenting with poppy tea he imbibed as well. This was well before the world woke up to poppies...another local man, Jim Hogshire, had written about them in his zine ("Pills a go go") but had yet to publish "Opium for the Masses"...so poppies were available at the grocery store, craft stores, etc. It really was an immediate love. My mother used opioids when I was in utero, so no surprise there....

I continued my exploration of drugs, learning chemistry, zealously participating in the fledgling internet drug scene, and still making no distinction.....drugs were drugs, and drugs were FUN. I enrolled in college, and soon was participating in paid drug experiments.....$80 to take morphine, fentanyl, or methadone orally, intranasally, rectally, or intravenously, and sit in bed for 8 hours while they measured serum levels and vital signs. Wow! My introduction to the needle brought my love to a new level......they only allowed one test a week, but hey, better than none! As a young university student I acquired the knowledge I was after, and dropped out, to make use of it.....I should also add that my mother at around age 19 would occasionally "kick down" a few of her methadone tablets....she was prescribed 20 10mg tablets a day, plus a good amount of dilaudid! Soon I started experimenting with shooting these.....I had been introduced to ketamine IM at around the same time, banishing any thoughts of the needle being a bad thing.....IM ketamine was the heroin of "psychedelics"....so hedonistic and escapist, so seductive, and so alluring....

You can guess where this is going. Psychedelics became a full time job, and I first tried heroin at age 20.....with the author of the book I mentioned earlier. He was interested in my chemistry, I in him, and we had mutual friends....Seattle was a small city then. Very quickly heroin use escalated...I had income, usually,  but my life spiraled down fast...I voluntarily entered my first detox at age 21....the free, scummy disturbing inner city detox...no one in my family knew....my dealer dropped me off. I lasted three days, and hopped the fence, although I was there willingly. I didn't have the patience to go through the discharge procedure...went and copped dope asap.

A few months went by and I got my shit together enough to save some money, got on a boat, and kicked CT. Hideous, but there was no going back. I travelled abroad on psychospiritual adventures....chasing peyote, roaming India, traipsing through the rain forest...I'd feel great, so sure I was done with opioids. I'd come back home to work, and BAM, hooked again. I did this for about 7 years. Eventually my work got me into trouble...that was the longest period I've been without opioids. But as soon as I could, I got high....

Eventually, after resuming the same cycle, it was time to get a normal job, stop running around, and stop being so insane. I went onto methadone, and then onto suboxone. I tapered down the suboxone to 1 mg and went to India for 6 months to "find myself" and get over the acutes and PAWS. Problem was that in India pharmacies are very liberal...benzos, ketamine, etc....soon I was eating opium, and the shooting Afghani heroin.....sigh. I came home and got back on suboxone. My use of psychedelics became rarer and rarer....I'd try new creations and old standbys every now and then, but certainly had to be opiated if not more, as I was afraid of that confrontation with myself...oil and water I say to psychedelics and opioids. But at the time that emulsion was necessary...

This time I tapered down to .5 mg and switched to kratom..."just for a month", to get over the acutes of bupe WD. That was 2.5 years ago....I now take between 40-50 g's of plain leaf a day. I have tried to quit several times...I can't taper kratom for shit, so I always CT it. Over a year ago I made it three weeks, but picked up a nasty and mammoth etizolam habit while I was at it. Back on the kratom....got on a doctor sanctioned diazepam taper, the Ashton protocol, and am now down to 12 mg a day, from a start of 80mgs, back in April 2013. I recently tried again to stop kratom....once again, with the judicious use of loperamide and gabapentin, I made it well over a month. But the siren sang its song, and here I am again...taking 8 g of powder every 4 hours, around the clock...

So, I've read a lot about Iboga/Ibogaine/TA, but not too much on its use for kratom addiction. I've read Blue Tigers story here...and I believe we are/were about at the same level, with his 5g a day gold reserve habit. I've heard some providers say kratom is harder for Iboga than should be expected. But also, a friend of mine back in Oregon, who imports and sells kratom, and is the manufacturer of the bonafide "Gold Reserve" goes down to Costa Rica yearly to wash himself of GR with Iboga and says it works fantastically....it is certainly a mixed bag! Kratom isn't a hardcore opioid, but it sure seems to get its' hooks in deep. It's not a gorilla on your back, but a bush baby with 12" long fingernails, deeply imbedded! I believe this to be partially due to its' mixed action....elevation of synaptic NE, NMDA antagonism, calcium channel blocking, etc, etc. Lot of alkaloids, lot of problems! I've actually considered getting back on a straight forward  SAO to kick the kratom. The opioid aspect of withdrawal is bad enough...not the worst, but at my level certainly comparable to a mid or high level pharm habit....but the 2nd phase and anxiety, lethargy, and anhedonia that are unique to kratoms' alkaloids really kick my ass. And it goes on and on....add to it that it is cheap, easily available, and somewhat maintainable, and it is hard to shake. My soul is dead, the life is being sucked out of me....

So, some questions.....I'm looking for more anecdotes, experiences, and opinions on the use of Iboga for a heavy duty plain leaf kratom habit. I have 2g of HCl and 1g of TA that just cleared customs in my state (I still move around a lot, but miss the PNW!) and so should be here very soon....I've read tons, and feel I am prepared.....

Now, here is where things get a little more complicated...my current occupation is that of a farmer. Yup, a bonafide farmer..organic veggies, free range poultry, sheep, and cattle.....so, my life is fairly quiet right now, but very soon will be non stop until November. I know you guys don't give dosing recommendations, but the supplier (well regarded) suggested 1.4g of HCl and 1g of TA, which is approximately 60% ibogaine. That was higher than I was anticipating! I weigh about 74 kg. Now, my life is slow now, but I can't just bag off entirely for weeks. I could probably get someone to take care of the animals for 4-5 days...I understand that HCl is quicker to recover from, but that it isn't quite as full spectrum as TA, of course. I know I am in for insomnia for some time, and lethargy....I'm just not sure if I should take this window, which is rather narrow, or trudge lifelessly on kratom until November when I can have weeks off...or do the loperamide taper thing again, which only works so well....ugh.

Surprisingly, I get a lot out of 12 step groups. I attend AA meetings usually nightly lately, although I never really drank. I don't think the use of entheogens and a 12 step life are mutually exclusive either....they both can share the same intent....better living through spirituality. I used to think of AA as dogmatic, and antiquated, with all the "God" talk, but really there is a lot of breathing room. I enjoy it for the support network of people on a spiritual quest. So, as far as aftercare and a support network, I am pretty set up. I guess I just want off this stuff so badly I am trying anything I can...I have someone willing to sit....not experienced with Iboga, but with trip sitting, and can administer and assist when needed.....also have a BP cuff with HR monitor. I am in good shape and regularly exercise.

so, that's my intro, questions included! Sorry so long winded....in a nutshell...how does Iboga work for addiction interruption with kratom, and is 4-5 days off of work enough? When I return it is not like things will be 0-60 immediately....here in the NE we are having an intense winter...but come March things will start to pick up fast, and not let up for 7 months or so....I can't stand the thought of 7 more months maintaining on kratom....it is so soul sucking.

Thank you for the wonderful forum, and please advise! I know one shouldn't rush into Iboga...and I don't particularly feel I am, I've been prepping for it for years, but the winter just zipped by....and now its late Feb.

Anyhow, thanks!

Offline lalababa

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Re: Hello...intoduction, opioids, now kratom...then iboga?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2014, 08:45:55 PM »
Hello Amanitadine,

What a wonderfully written introduction!  Thank you for sharing so much.  I really feel you.  I also understand about your current occupation as I myself am a professional gardener.  I did my detox flood during the winter so I had plenty of time to recuperate but I was coming off of methadone and even though switching to an SAO for a month helped, I had about two months where I didn't have a whole lot of energy but I also did two, what I thought were boosters, smaller floods in the month after my initial one so that may have made the fatigue worse or it could have knocked the PAWS from a long acting opiate shorter, it is hard to say.  I don't have any experience with Kratom but I know Blue Tiger seemed okay fairly soon after his detox from it but I think he still had some fatigue.  If you don't want to wait until next winter, I would use the HCL or a combination of HCL and TA.  There are some other things you can do before and after the flood to help get your energy back..  It seems like you have read a lot on here so you probably have heard of Kambo.  Using Kambo before a flood, in my experience really helps with the fatigue and it gets a lot of shit out of your system first.  It isn't fun but I think it is wort it.. You could also try it a few weeks after your flood and it could help knock out any PAWS (though I am not sure how bad those are with Kratom)  Nootropics seem to help with energy levels post flood as well but you wouldn't want to use those right away.

Do you have any rootbark?  I know people have weaned down on the Kratom with it..  I know there are several members who have used Iboga for Kratom so I hope they chime in here. 

Ideally you would have done this a month ago.. I don't farm but am in a similar industry and in my part of the country I think spring is coming early this year, I don't care what the groundhog says... I trust the farmers almanac and my intuition after doing this most of my life so that may be something to think about.  Farming may be different, you may start the same time every year no matter the weather.  I actually started getting back to work already.

Thank you again for the intro and I will have to read it again to see if I missed any major questions that I could answer.  I have been quite busy lately.

lalababa

Offline Amanitadine

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Re: Hello...intoduction, opioids, now kratom...then iboga?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2014, 10:38:13 PM »
Hey Lala

Thank you for the warm welcome, and cheers to another green thumb! I've enjoyed reading through your posts....I've digested a huge portion of this forum the last while. And hooray for horticulture! I wouldn't have imagined myself in this position (farming, including meat...I was a vegetarian for years) a few years ago but life works in strange ways. Now i achieve great satisfaction from providing sustainably and ethically grown healthy food....good stuff.

And thanks again for the input...yes, ideally this would have happened in the dead of winter...but for whatever mule headed reason I thought this was to be  the time I would knock off the kratom for good. Having kicked all sorts of opioids countless times I am surprised how insidious the kratom can be when not treated with respect, much like other things! So, Iboga has been incubating in the back of my mind for years, and the seed has sprouted...

Really, things won't be too crazy until April or so...I am in the NE and we don't plant our early crops until mid-late april, and most things go in the ground in late May. I have lambs due, two ewes any day, and the rest not until April. So March will be mostly planning, ordering, and getting my greenhouse up and running...finally got a 26' by 36' heated hoophouse so we can do all of our own starts and greens through winter. So really, March won't be too hectic, I just know from extensive reading and communication that Iboga isn't to be taken lightly. Mentally and physically I feel I am prepared....just fretting about the logistics of such and weaving it into the tapestry that is my life. I want to really be able to incorporate it, not just some intense cataclysmic island adrift amongst the goings on that is the "rest" of my life...

At the moment I don't have rootbark, but plan on getting some. And really, my goal with Iboga is to not just avoid the kratom withdrawals....I know I could soldier through them again. I just want to dig deeper, and see what wisdom can be imparted from this mysterious root. My addiction has taken all forms beside opioids...coke, meth, benzos, booze, MJ, arylcyclohexylamines, cathinones...you name it. I still GREATLY value serious use of entheogens...I make a big distinction between such and the reckless use of the aforementioned.....one is escape, the other quite the contrary!

Anyways, thanks again :D I'll perhaps later make a post in the general discussion forum for input on Iboga and kratom, from patient, provider, bystander, or anecdotally. I'm all ears, and eager to learn as much as I can!

peace

Offline BlueTiger

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Re: Hello...intoduction, opioids, now kratom...then iboga?
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2014, 08:12:04 AM »
Amanitadine,

Quite the introduction my friend.  Welcome and thank you for sharing your story, well written I might add. 

So it seems we are connected then through a degree of separation.  I thought I was crafty as hell when I found the original inventor of the Gold Reserve.  I was on the Kratom connoisseur forum before this.  I remember hearing something about him doing these regular floods.  I was already 2-3 floods in by the time I discovered this.  He sold me my last batch of GRE, and I remember it wasn't even enjoyable.  I felt sick all the time after ingesting that much Kratom leaf and extract for so long. 

Anyway, Kratom is an unknown evil, IMO.  I went through the 180mg a day hydrocodone Iboga flood detox, as well as the Kratom.  For me, I believe I needed the 4th flood.  Once again, that was my decision for my life, not a recommendation by any means. 

Although Kratom was the most difficult to recover from, it was also the flood that took me to space.  My life was forever changed from that moment on.  The pain was miserable for 3-4 days.  Then I started microdosing Iboga, and worked up to a gram of bark plus a few fungi (about a gram as well), and that made for a breakthrough in the recovery process.  I didn't work for awhile, and I will always hold that debt in someway.  But that was me.  All that matters to me is the fact that I can withstand major life change and have no urge to return to opiates. 

I could thank Iboga, and I do.  I am forever grateful to the mystery of this powerful healing root.  However, I like to believe that Iboga only granted me this new set of eyes, because I followed through on my end, bowed to the divine within, and became a different person, or allowed my true self to be revealed. 

I am happy to discuss more in depth with you.  Feel free to reach out anytime.  I think you can do this with the help of some powerful nutrients.  The exercise of work will actually speed up your healing process, certainly when eased into.  It was very frustrating for me as well to find virtually no info on Iboga flooding for Kratom. 

I am here.  You are not alone.  You may have to reach me outside of the forum for more immediate urgent questions.   I am in a transition phase at the moment. 

Big Hug,

Blue