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Offline eboseeker

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4 years after my flood my opinion on Iboga
« on: April 01, 2015, 10:07:11 PM »
Hello good people of this forum,

when I first learned about Iboga in a podcast I became extremely fascinated with the subject.
I was suicidal and really in despair, that certainly had a part in making me wanting to try something unlike anything else
I've ever tried before. I didn't have a substance abuse problem (although I was on anti-depressants for about a year back then),
I didn't smoke, I didn't drink one drop of alcohol in my life and I was 23 years old at the time. I also didn't take any or try
any other drugs or psychedelics, so the podcast about Iboga and my ensuing fascination with the topic of psychedelics was
in many ways a big shift in my perception.

I did a lot of research on Iboga and in my mind it was not unlike a miracle cure. What I wanted to cure with it was my
social anxiety, general anxiety, low self-esteem, not knowing what my place in life should be, mild autism/extremely introverted,
adhs, self-hatred and resulting depression.

First I tried small doses of Iboga at home, it was an interesting experience, but of course didn't really help me to fix
my "soul problems". I did some more research and soon I had a date with an experienced ibogaine guide for a full flood.

In the days before the experience I was certain that my life was about to change completely and that a real miracle was
going to happen. When I finally swallowed the stuff a trip took its course which definetely changed my life, but I'm highly
unsure that it was for the good.

First let me clarify that my trip definitely had some great elements in it, although what I can remember now are merely
shadows. It was like the most amazing dream, and there were times in the trip where I felt I was an enlightened being
literally like a Buddha, in other parts of the trip I must have seen, heard and felt the most amazing things, because
I certainly was in awe and I was crying of joy. There was even a "point" of awakening in the trip which I don't quite
understand in hindsight, I mean I can vividely remember the joy I felt in that moment, the feeling of being born again
if you will, a kind of freedom, being completely free of depression maybe.

I'm still happy for those positive experiences, although as I said they are really only shadows in my mind now.

The less pretty side of my trip was as ugly and horrible and excruciating as the pretty side was amazing.
Maybe its because time flies when positive stuff happens and it goes really slow when negative stuff happens,
but in my memory there is much more left of the negative side of the trip and it seemed to dominate my trip.
Who knows why this has to be, maybe that's where you're confronted with the ego, or maybe it's a reflection
of a mind that already was in a depression for a whole decade. Just like most of my dreams seem to be
some variation of a nightmare, or just all-out nightmares, it makes sense to me that my Iboga trip also
contained a whole bunch of "self-punishment".

I didn't really speak about that negative part of the trip back then, while my trip was occuring I didn't speak much
at all, maybe I should've opened my mouth a lot more to get some useful deflection from my guide, but most
of the time I was just absorbed in my trip and just stated that "I'm alright". Of course there was also
shame inside of me, those extremely negative parts of my trip almost seemed like some kind of devil was
making an effort to destroy every last ounce of hope. There were many different stages with different themes
and different ways to torture me. Some parts I can remember a little better, the most interesting or most beautiful
ones I seem to have almost forgotten completely. The part I seem to remember best is marked by grotesque
absurdity. The purpose of this part seemingly was completely to "fry my brain". Everything was totally stupid
and left me just feeling like a worthless idiot and piece of shit. You might say this was the mirror to my ego,
but I still don't really see how to learn something from torture. I know I wanted to get out of this maze
of stupidity but it seemed to be an eternity and I just didn't know how to hit the brakes. It was pure unending hellish horror.
By the way some of the good parts also seemed like an eternity at the time, although I can't remember anything concrete.
I'm sorry I can't give you many examples since I only remember shadows and my own reactions.

Inspite of the negative parts, which didn't really come as a surprise to me because they came up in my research
about iboga, in the days and weeks following my trip I was satisfied with the experience.
One thing is definitely true, if you do survive (yes, there is apparently a minority that doesn't and from
my own experience I can say it's really a tough time on the body and the mind (for me) and
therefore it's believable to me that some would die from it), after your trip and your awakening experience
you'll get the much talked about Iboga glow. The depression was lifted, my face was changed, the deep
sadness and resulting uglyness was gone for a while and I was glowing and maybe my face was
prettier than before (before it was ugly), I was able to smile much more naturally etc.
This "glowing" effect faded out in the coming weeks and months.

It makes sense that someone with a drug abuse problem would be able not to abuse drugs in the time
following a Iboga flood, since you feel so light and the world seems beautiful and the depression is lifted for a while,
so it totally makes sense that there's nothing that is triggering you into abusing anything.
Why would you want to get drunk for example, when you're feeling amazingly amazing anyhow?
Remember that I didn't have a substance abuse problem, I just went of my anti-depressants a couple of weeks
before I had my flood to avoid any complications, but the source of my problems wasn't my medication,
I was only taking anti-depressants for less than a year and my depression was already a decade old.
I'm just reflecting why it makes sense to me how Iboga indeed could help someone to get of substances.

I had to go to college a few weeks after my trip and soon enough I realized that my old problems
hadn't gone. Some people reacted positively to me because of that Iboga glow and my new found
positive attitude, but soon enough I noticed that my old shortcomings were still there and I still
needed courage to break through my social anxiety and so on.

I want to tell you about the damage that the flood apparently did to my brain. The experience being
as extreme as it is, I initially was convinced that all of that was just side-effects and that soon enough
all of those side-effects would vanish.
After the trip was over I still had enormous problems walking correctly and with gauging spatial distances.
It's not that I couldn't walk, but it was like I lost a huge part of muscle memory and/or had horrifying
unability to coordinate my movement and orientation. For example I couldn't apply the right amount
of pressure when pressing buttons with my hands, either I went way over board or I didn't apply
any pressure at all.
When I was walking it sometimes looked like I was drunk and in the middle of walking I even
had mild flashbacks to my trips where I lost normal consciousness for fractions of a second.
I know for a fact that those effects never vanished compeletly, I really had to learn to move
correctly (I didn't have to learn everything from zero of course, but controlling my body became many times
more difficult) again at the age of 23 and 4 years later I'm still in the process.
But I was in denial about the negative stuff that had happened to me and I didn't search any help for it,
because I was convinved it was going to go away by itsself soon enough and it was normal.

Unfortunately some bad experiences happened in my life that were starting to overshadow the Iboga glow
only months after my trip. Indeed I was suicidal again maybe 2-3 months later. Isn't it interesting
how people with their mouths saying mean things behind other people's back can make those people
hate their life again and can make them cry and go into despair again. Maybe my downfall is that my
ears are just too good.

Whatever this being born again feeling is and whatever those amazing and beautiful 4D dreams are,
all of this is a miracle indeed while it happens. But in my experience it's not a guarantuee you won't
get brain damage for the rest of your life. It's also not a guarantuee you won't meet mean people
again in your life and that you'll be able to deal with it.

There's only one thing I know that has definitely changed due to the trip. Before it I was an atheist,
I really did believe death is the end of everything. Now I know, notice that I use the word knowing and
not believing, because I don't need to believe something anymore once I really know it. Now I know
that whatever this infinitely complex thing is that we call existence, it can't be a product of only randomness,
there's a web that holds all of existence together, a gigantic mind, of course I can't explain it but once
you've been "there" you don't need those explanations.

But even if you're a spiritual seeker, in all honesty, I'd not advise you to take the risk and use Iboga.
It could work for you and leave you undamaged, but if you'd know the hell that my life has been
since I took Iboga, you'd not touch it. Just google Iboga and brain damage and there are a couple
of accounts, some of which seem even worse than my own. Try something else like maybe ayahuasca
or dmt, but I wouldn't risk an Iboga flood (in hindsight) for psychological or spiritual reasons.
Yes, I know that a lot of people have been helped a great deal by Iboga and everybody has to make
his or her own decision. Based on many positive accounts I made my decision 4 years ago and
today I think it was one of the greatest errors in my life.
I'm not blaming everything negative in my life on Iboga, but I know that everything is a lot harder
for me than it needs to be, because I literally am retarded compared to the way my brain worked
before I had my trip.

I have to use those harsh words here to hammer my point into the brains of people that are considering
to experience an Iboga trip for reasons other than coming of hard drugs (and even those users should
note what I've to say). Iboga can literally make you retarded. I mean your brain, but in all honesty,
who is you? You is your brain. You are your brain. Your brain is you. Without your brain you're nothing.
Your brain is everything that you are. And I can give you first hand testimony of Iboga definitely leaving
the brain damaged.

Example. I'm a geek and I've been writing computer programs in many different languages since I was about
12 years old. Now I've huge problems to solve my own puny computer problems and I often just give up out
of frustration, where the old me (my unfried brain) usually only needed minutes to solve such problems and
it used to be fun. Before Iboga the mouse and keyboard were like second nature to me, my mouse, keyboard,
display and mind coordination was flawless, now I've problems hitting the right buttons with the mouse,
and my typing requires a lot more concentration, the coordination of switching between mouse and keyboard
is also more difficult, everything seems harder. What used to be fun for me, now has become work.
And that's just one tiny example of what I mean when I say Iboga can make you retarded. I mean it literally,
I don't mean it to be demeaning, your ability to function in the normal world can drop drastically and it won't
ever get back to being quite as it was before. Which is especially bad when you already had problems to
function in the normal world before you ever tried something like Iboga.

By the way I don't mean that I'm literally crazy (although from time to time I like to be a little positively crazy), I definitely don't
run naked in the streets, I don't talk to myself when I know people are around, and I don't suddenly
have any extremist opinions, I don't harm other people (that was always a high ideal for me, and still is),
I'm still able to make sane judgements.

The problem is just that I'm not functioning normally, I can't keep my apartment clean, I can't hold a job,
I can't move/coordinate my body properly, everything is hard and frustrating for me, my depression is still kicking ass (mostly my own),
I'm generally slower in thinking and doing stuff.
I tried to hold a relatively easy job where you have to work with your body, but I they kept saying to me that I was just too slow and they were pressuring me to be faster, which frustrated me so much(, since I was giving my best,) that I had to throw in the towel.

Following the year when I had my initial flood and being depressive and suicidal and all again I started
to experiment with a couple more psychedelics. I still thought that my problems were "only side-effects",
for example I tried weed for a couple of months, and while I had positive experiences with it, in the
end it made me only less funtional than I already was. I just stopped it forever. I never had a problem
with stopping the use of a substance. I never got physically dependend on a "drug", thank god.
Two years after my flood I tried Iboga again, I still hadn't made the connection between my even bigger
problems, my even deeper depression, my even worse life and what Iboga had done to my brains condition.
I was giving Iboga another chance in my apartment without a guide (foolish I know), because I still had
a strange kind of trust in the promise that Iboga meant to me.
I had some concentrated Ibogaine and some root bark, but it wasn't enough for a full flood. It was
something on the half way to a full flood.
I can not say much positive about this half-flood trip, it was a bad trip from the beginning to the
end and there was no awakening moment or anything like that. I could feel how my brain was getting duller.
When the dose kicked in I instanstly felt and knew that I had made a mistake, I already felt that
I was trapped inside a body with a broken brain and this trip was making it even more broken.
I knew it as soon as it kicked in, it's literally like my lights went out. I've destroyed my life.
The trip was horrible. And after it was finally over I realized that all my coordination problems
were intensified even more now.
Now it was so bad, that I wasn't able to easily brush my own teeth. Please read this carefully.
I wasn't able to easily brush my own teeth. For a long time it was hard work for me to do such a simple task.
Since this half-flood 2 years have gone by and I learned to brush my teeth easily thankfully, but
I'll probably always lag far behind how people that never had their brain damaged can live their life.

Finally after my half-flood 2 years ago I then realized that Iboga is not good for me and has indeed caused
a lot of serious damage. Since then I didn't try any other drugs. My brain is very slowly recovering,
at this rate I'm completely normal in about 100 years. But I'd probably be happy with being more or less
normal and that could be possible in about 10 years I guess.

My intention here isn't to bash Iboga or people that love Iboga. The topic of psychedelics is fascinating, in my opinion
every adult should be free to do whatever he or she wishes to do. In the full flood Iboga has shown
me beauty and I had wonderful emotions, I was practically "enlightened" for a while.
I love the stories where people used Iboga and it turned their life around into a positive direction, but I noticed that
I'm not the only one who noticed that shit can and does go wrong occasionally. It properly depends on your individual
brain, but nobody can tell you beforehand if you'll get away unscarred or not.

The people I want to warn the most is guys like me that heard about Iboga on some podcast and now have placed
all their hopes on the trip "showing them the light", because they feel lost in the world.
If you break a leg, or even if you have cancer, there's a good chance that modern medicine can help you. But
when you belong to the minority that gets brain damage by Iboga, you can only pray to god to heal you.
I did try lots and lots of supplements like fish oil and yadda yadda to help my brain fix itsself, but the reality
is that brain damage is no joke, and will probably never be fully reversed from what I'm experiencing.

I realize this really seems in the end like I'm hating on Iboga, but I don't. I still love the community,
and if someone is helped by Iboga I'm glad for it. The bad "side-effects" probably only happen to a fraction of
people, but I think that risk must be considered when you're thinking about doing an Iboga flood.

« Last Edit: April 02, 2015, 07:27:14 AM by eboseeker »

Offline holybark

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Re: 4 years after my flood my opinion on Iboga
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2015, 04:46:32 PM »
Thank you for sharing, I'm very sorry this happened to you. It is very important that people hear these things, and understand the risk involved with this medicine. I hope you overcome the problems in your life and things work out for you.

« Last Edit: April 04, 2015, 04:58:05 PM by holybark »
I'm not in your trap, I'm in my own trap.

Offline Rintrah

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Re: 4 years after my flood my opinion on Iboga
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2015, 03:36:30 AM »
Yes indeed thank you for your post. Hopefully there will be sufficient research in the future so that cases like yours can be prevented.

Offline ppole

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Re: 4 years after my flood my opinion on Iboga
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2015, 03:18:52 AM »
Hello eboseeker
hello everyone,

Did you vomit during your experiences with Iboga?


You could try Synaptolepis Kirkii and Ubulawu herbs, they are powerful and mild at once (no psychedelic effects), synaptolepis and probably also ubulawu are neurotrophic (new connections between neurons)

Also Scutellaria (galericulata, baicalensis etc) I read that are used for depression, baicalensis is neurotrophic, neuroprotective too
salvia miltiorrhiza is also neurotrophic neuroprotective
magnolia extract is used for anxiety, its active principles are neuroprotective and neurotrophic
gynostemma pentaphyllum is very mild sedative, neurotrophic, neuroprotective, similar saponins of ginseng
ziziphus seeds extract is also mild sedative, anti anxiety, neuroprotective, neurotrophic
and if you want I can tell you others


Offline eboseeker

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Re: 4 years after my flood my opinion on Iboga
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2015, 03:35:21 AM »
Hello eboseeker
hello everyone,

Did you vomit during your experiences with Iboga?

You could try Synaptolepis Kirkii and Ubulawu herbs, they are powerful and mild at once (no psychedelic effects), synaptolepis and probably also ubulawu are neurotrophic (new connections between neurons)

Also Scutellaria (galericulata, baicalensis etc) I read that are used for depression, baicalensis is neurotrophic, neuroprotective too
salvia miltiorrhiza is also neurotrophic neuroprotective
magnolia extract is used for anxiety, its active principles are neuroprotective and neurotrophic
gynostemma pentaphyllum is very mild sedative, neurotrophic, neuroprotective, similar saponins of ginseng
ziziphus seeds extract is also mild sedative, anti anxiety, neuroprotective, neurotrophic
and if you want I can tell you others

Hi ppole,

good question, yes I vomited in the real flood experience, which probably had a good/cleansing effect.
However I didn't vomit during the experiences I had alone with Iboga, especially that half-flood thing was
strange, I was almost in a kind of rage during that trip, I cried, I got angry, but I didn't vomit.

Thanks for your suggestions. Can you elaborate a little more on each of those substances and why
they are interesting? What's their mechanism of action/active ingredient? Also, where do you get them?

Thanks

Offline ppole

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Re: 4 years after my flood my opinion on Iboga
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2015, 04:09:04 AM »
how much did you vomit the first time?

on pubmed you can find the studies

es.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=Synaptolepis+Kirkii

but many of them are listed only by the active principle, not by the plant name
es. magnolol and honokiol for magnolia officinalis
baicalein for scutellaria baicalensis
gypenoside for gynostemma
so you have to search bothe the plant name and the chemical

es. gynostemma neuron
baicalensis neuronal
gynostemma neural
gypenoside neural
gypenoside neuroprotection
gypenoside neuroprotective

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23302221

Studies show that depression is linked to a lack of new connections (between existing neurons), and new neuron formations from stem cells

es. here I searched: -salvia stem neuron-  role of miltorrhiza in neural stem cells differentiation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24716802
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21549822
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24568774


maya ethnobotanicals (NL) has ubulawu and synaptolepis
also the botanical source (south africa) has a lot of them
purified honokiol, magnolol you can find it on amazon, ebay

www.bristolbotanicals.co.uk has all of them (not ubulawu, synaptolepis)

where do you live?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2015, 04:20:33 AM by ppole »

Offline ppole

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Re: 4 years after my flood my opinion on Iboga
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2015, 04:15:57 AM »
also celery is neurotrophic (apiin, apigenin falvaonoids) and mild sedative
seeds are used
apium graveolens

apigenin neuron
apigenin neuroprotective

Apigenin and related compounds stimulate adult neurogenesis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19441930


Also plants the are mild NMDA antagonist are intersting for you, es.  Cyperus articulatus (Piri Piri) - (available from maya ethnob.)

Offline ppole

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Re: 4 years after my flood my opinion on Iboga
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2015, 04:22:39 AM »
other easy to find (also in shops) neurotrophic herbs

Ashwagandha, Withania somnifera
Ginseng
centella asiatica

Offline eboseeker

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Re: 4 years after my flood my opinion on Iboga
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2015, 08:57:48 PM »
how much did you vomit the first time?

where do you live?

Hello ppole,

thanks for sharing your knowledge.

I puked quite heavily the first time, I can't exactly tell you how much or for how long,
as you can imagine I was really high at the time, but I can remember that I was insisting
on going to the toilet instead of just puking into a bucket, and I was somehow able to
make that way to and back from the toilet without much help although being incredibly high.
I remember that it really felt like I was puking out something "evil"/"bad" from my body, so
I definitely felt better when it was over. As preparation for the flood I didn't eat a lot in the days
before going to my sitter, so that was a limit on the quantity of my puke I guess. From what my guide
told me there are some people that puked a lot more, for me it seemed an appropriate amount.

I live in Central Europe, don't want to share my location publicly for now, however you can PM me if you like.

All the best!

Offline ppole

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Re: 4 years after my flood my opinion on Iboga
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2015, 05:06:41 PM »
also bacopa monnieri is very very good

good luck! bye

Offline Ali Bongo

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Re: 4 years after my flood my opinion on Iboga
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2018, 06:53:33 AM »
Hello
I have experienced some mental decline after iboga, as well as a general feeling of 'being stuck' in life. I've found that water-only fasting (once for 7 days and once for 10 days) dealt with this. During the fast I could feel the iboga at work, that which had remained in my system even over half a year after my iboga experience. Every night felt like medicine night. I could feel the healing going on in my body and mind. It's as if my iboga experiences had done half a job and the water-only fast finished the job. After fasting I was clear in my mind, and functioning better than ever, procrastination, anxiety and addictive-habits dramatically reduced, effectiveness increased. Now I know, if I get stuck or decline after iboga, water-only fasting will sort it. To learn how to do it safely I researched the work of Dr Alan Goldhamer.