Author Topic: Is iboga safe - part 2  (Read 5037 times)

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RavAv

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Is iboga safe - part 2
« on: October 27, 2010, 07:07:55 AM »
Just wanted to share with everybody.

Yesterday afternoon,
i "sat" with a 62 year old man who has
Irritable Bowel Syndrome, Hyploglycemic, and Sleep Apnea

not only did the treatment go wonderful (4 1/2 grams of INDRA)
"he said he could find the energy blocks, go into them and move them"

and his wife who knows little or nothing about iboga
came to visit today and after doing some energy work on him said
"his energy seems to have been reset to some pure place like Adam and Eve in the Garden before the exile" !!!!

it will be very interesting to see what happens to all his dis-eases in the coming days / weeks

fallout330

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Re: Is iboga safe - part 2
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2010, 10:25:07 AM »
Very good to hear Rav!

Thanks for sharing, peace!

Offline sister

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Re: Is iboga safe - part 2
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2010, 10:30:26 AM »
Very good to hear.

Was wondering what you'll think about using Kraton for switch over of suboxone....then doing iboga?
life is a bowl of fruit, once clean

RavAv

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Re: Is iboga safe - part 2
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2010, 10:56:08 AM »
i've never used kratom to switch or detox
but anything has to be bettter than suboxone

Offline digital_phreedom

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Re: Is iboga safe - part 2
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2010, 11:00:35 AM »
Awesome to hear Rav! That just helps confirm what I've been thinking about Iboga's safety.

And sis, Kratom will certainly be easier to get off of that suboxone, but it might not be an easy switch to make, depending on how much suboxone one is on. High doses of Kratom can be kind of nauseating and uncomfortable. It's different for everyone of course, but to get off anything higher than 4mg/day of suboxone, I'd guess that it'd be much more comfortable to switch to pods first, and then on to kratom if you want to get even lower.
Embrace this moment, remember: We are eternal. All this pain is an illusion.

Offline sister

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Re: Is iboga safe - part 2
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2010, 01:32:02 PM »
actually what I was asking is going to kraton then to iboga....  from what I understand its not.. but want to hear it from you'll
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Offline digital_phreedom

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Re: Is iboga safe - part 2
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2010, 02:11:15 PM »
Kratom to Iboga is fine.. I was just saying the initial switch from Suboxone to Kratom might be uncomfortable if you're taking a lot of suboxone. But as far as I know Kratom to Iboga is just fine, and probably easier than Pods to Iboga, because Kratom has less alkaloids, that are less potent. I guess that could be debated, but IMO Kratom doesn't get anywhere near as strong as a good pod habit can.
Embrace this moment, remember: We are eternal. All this pain is an illusion.

Offline sassyfras

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Re: Is iboga safe - part 2
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2010, 01:54:23 AM »
Sorry my friends, but I don't think going to kratom prior to Iboga is a good idea at all....I have been part of a group of ladies for several years now, who have had extensive experience with kratom (in all it's different forms) & I'm very familiar with it myself. Kratom, and especially the tinctures & ultra enhanced indo, is a very powerful & complex substance. It contains over 25 different active alkaloids & it hits on a lot more receptors than regular opioids do. Although kratom is cross tolerant with opiates, and many, many opiate users switch to kratom from opiates like hydro or oxys as kind of a "step down" to a supposedly less addictive, more benign substance~~~a lot of these people unfortunately learned that kratom can be far more difficult to detox from. Kratom extracts like UEI are ridiculously addictive, and the people who use it even for short periods of time find that their tolerance literally skyrockets. If they switch back to regular opiates they require far more of those than they did before playing with the kratom extracts. This is true even with just plain leaf kratom....just not quite as dramatic.

I also know of a couple of ladies who went for Iboga treatments for their UEI (ultra enhanced indo kratom ) addictions & they had a very difficult time. The Iboga wasn't able to stop enough of their withdrawal misery & they relapsed very soon after....

Mind you, I HAVE also heard of successful kratom detoxes with Iboga. My guess is that those people were probably not addicted to kratom extracts, but only plain leaf kratom. In any case, kratom is not a true opiate, and since we know that Iboga works extremely well for true opiates, I believe it would be best to switch to one of those.

Kratom is an interesting medicine for sure. I think it could be used very successfully in a short term detox...just like sub can be very good used that way....but for anyone planning an Iboga treatment I really think it would be best to switch to *real* opiates beforehand.

RavAv

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Re: Is iboga safe - part 2
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2010, 04:19:05 AM »
thanks for all that info sassyfras
maybe it should be posted as a warning on all the web sites that seel kratom as safe and harmless

Offline digital_phreedom

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Re: Is iboga safe - part 2
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2010, 02:25:10 PM »
Thanks for chiming in with that Sassy! I didn't know Kratom could be so strong. I just assumed it was more benign since it isn't a classical opiate. Very glad you helped clarify that.

So in your opinion, are pods easier to detox from than Kratom?
Embrace this moment, remember: We are eternal. All this pain is an illusion.

Offline sassyfras

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Re: Is iboga safe - part 2
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2010, 01:24:15 AM »
Yes, Rav, I would like to see better, more honest/accurate info out there about kratom for sure! The plain, whole leaf kratom which has not been de-veined or de-stemmed, is actually a wonderful medicine and is NOT as addictive as true opiates~~~this is because the stems & veins contain small amounts of an opiate antagonist called "ryncophylline"~~~which has a similar mechanism of action as does ULDN (ultra low dose naltrexone ) when used in conjunction with a true opiate. It helps prevent tolerance from forming as well as potentiating the kratom alkaloids. As is so often the case...the whole & natural product is the best. Kratom has been used in this form for hundreds of years and is an awesome medicine for depression, for fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, ulcerative colitis, and is loaded with free radical fighting anti-oxidants. For people who use kratom in this form, if they did not have a pre-existing opiate addiction, it is very unlikely for them to get addicted to it. For people who DO have an opiate addiction, including suboxone & methadone, a switch to whole kratom would most certainly be a more healthful choice! But with a pre-existing opiate addiction at the time of the switch, they will definitely become addicted to the kratom unless they do a fairly short & aggressive taper off of it. For those with severely impaired neurotransmitters, for those who simply do not seem to be able to have any quality of life without opioids/opiates.....for those people I believe that whole, natural leaf kratom can be an excellent "maintenance" med, far more benign & much healthier than sub or methadone. I know numerous people who have done this and regained their health & lives & families.

But almost ALL commercial kratom has been de-veined & de-stemmed, & just that alone causes the kratom to be more addictive & less healthful. ( When I was using kratom I just bought some stem & vein powder to add to the kratom, in effect re-creating "whole" kratom.) And then, when we get into the extracts, where certain of the most opiate-like alkaloids have been isolated to produce powerfully euphoric & energizing affects.....this is where we can get into very deep water very, very quickly! Many, many former opiate users ( even hardcore heroin users ) say that the highs they got from these extracts were WAY more euphoric & long lasting than their former docs were. Unfortunately they also discovered that the withdrawals from these extracts were FAR worse than anything they'd ever experienced before.

I just want to help those of you who might be dealing with kratom addicts for Iboga treatment purposes, or any of you who might be thinking of "stepping down" from your opiate to kratom, to make more informed choices. For example, Rav, if someone asks you whether Iboga works for kratom.....you will need to know what form of kratom, how much of it, & for how long the person has been using it before you can give them an answer. If you should have a kratom addict asking about treatment, please feel free to ask me for more info, any time. Likewise, for any of you who might be interested in using kratom as a detox treatment or maintenance med, I would be happy to walk you through the steps.

Yes, Digital....I would have to say that pods would be easier to detox from, just because they are a "true" opiate......though I imagine that a person using just a relatively small amount of whole kratom would do fine too. Sorry this got so long, but there is just so much mis-information all over the net about kratom!
« Last Edit: October 29, 2010, 01:27:49 AM by sassyfras »

Offline sister

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Re: Is iboga safe - part 2
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2010, 11:25:15 AM »
TY Sassy,
I didnt think that Kraton was such a good ideal.  I just wanted to check here before I said No.....

I have seen those try and use Kraton to get off sub only to create a habit that they cant get free of... also they tell me its costing big $$$$ to maintain.

Another ?,...  how do you think the switch to poppys would be from Kraton?  Or like from sub/opiates just trial and error to find out?
life is a bowl of fruit, once clean

Offline sassyfras

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Re: Is iboga safe - part 2
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2010, 03:54:37 PM »
Sister, I know people who have switched from kratom to pods with very little difficulty, even people who were on high amounts of kratom extracts were able to do so quite painlessly. Same deal with switching from sub/opiates to pods. Some people find the pods are not as euphoric as kratom extracts or opiates like oxys are, which is a good thing for them as it makes it a lot easier to keep their usage relatively low.

Oh yes~~~I've seen quite a few people who quit sub using kratom! It can definitely be done, but because just plain kratom leaf is often not quite enough for someone who was on higher dosages of sub, they end up using kratom extracts and finding themselves with an even worse addiction. It's not at all unusual for someone addicted to UEI to spend $40,000 - $50,000 per year on it. And with so little reliable info on the net about this kind of addiction, it can be a very isolating & scary experience.

But don't forget, Sis, you can't just lump all kratom use together. If you re-read the first paragraph of my last post you'll see that there is a tremendous difference between using plain, whole leaf kratom versus using the highly refined kratom extracts. It's almost like a black & white difference!

Offline sassyfras

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Re: Is iboga safe - part 2
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2010, 04:39:03 PM »
I apologize for having gone kinda off topic in your thread, Rav! Being an older person myself, I was extremely interested & excited to hear about your experience with the 62 year old man you recently treated with Iboga. Was he coming off opiates? I would love to read of more Iboga treatments on older people. We value & want our lives back just as much as younger people do, but the dearth of info re older people ( esp. those with pre-existing health conditions ) & Ibo, is worrisome.
Reading about the death of that 62 year old woman ( on the Ibogaine List )  who had Iboga treatment for her 15 year long methadone addiction ( at a clinic ) was upsetting....especially when that was the last we heard of it....leaving us clueless as to the reason why it happened. Maybe it had nothing to do with the Iboga treatment itself, or maybe certain simple precautions were not done, was there even an autopsy done? It's just so sad that this lady's death didn't at least contribute some more knowledge to the subject of Ibo treatment for older people.

From everything I've read & seen & experienced, Iboga certainly seems to be very safe for most people. I've been wondering, though, about how (& if ) the Bw'iti use Iboga with older people? And what about women~~~were young women initiated with Iboga like the young men were? Do the Bw'iti have female Iboga shamans? I'm very curious about this, & have read that women have a more intense experience on Iboga than men do.....would that be a physiological or psychological thing?

Ok, enough questions for now, lol!