Author Topic: Withdrawal from different substances  (Read 7736 times)

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Nganga Nobunoni

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Withdrawal from different substances
« on: February 17, 2010, 11:06:22 AM »
Hi folks'

I started this thread in an attempt to give folks some info and options for detoxing off different substances'

There is some confusion that is bouncing off me about the effectiveness of Ibogaine to wipe out withdrawal completely from Methadone' Subutex and Heroin!

I am limited in my time' but to start'

Methadone detox takes 4 days to get blood clean then 10-14 days before you can stand' sometimes less' 28 days all in'

Subutex detox takes 6 days to get blood clean and 9 days before you can stand' 22-25 days all in'

Heroin detox takes 24 hours to get blood clean' 72 hours the withdrawal is broken' 10-12 days all in'

This is with or without Iboga/Ibogaine'

Advice!

Switch to short acting opiates and partake of Iboga/Ibogaine therapy and no suffer psychologicaly or physicaly' come back a bit cold for up to 7-12 days endorphine depleted'

Iboga/Ibogaine for Methadone or Subutex'

If you no start at a low dose of either these substances you shall be blank for 5 days after Iboga/Ibogaine and then endorphine depleted' and the withdrawal shall come back for at least 2 weeks' cold endorphine depleted 28 days all in'

If you take Iboga/Ibogaine therapy for a small amount of Methadone or subutex you shall be extremely tired with a profpund inabilty to sleep for 9-12 days' and cold all in for 28 days'

I keep getting folks with big smiles on their faces saying' "I have no used heroin for many months' I am stable on 70mg plus of Methadone' can I take Iboga therapy ?"

Simple answer'
Unless you wish to be gravely ill for the best part of 4 weeks' NO!

Switch the methadone/subutex to short acting and then take Iboga therapy'

Any folks like to add things to this' cos it seems to me' some folks take Methadone and Subutex and have no clue of what the withdrawal actualy is!


Appreciated Cal' perhaps folks can add their experience to this post' then I can point folks here for some well needed knowledge of withdrawal and Iboga'

Blessings and Light'

Nganga Nobunoni +
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 11:13:20 AM by Nganga Nobunoni »

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Withdrawal from different substances
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2010, 07:50:29 AM »
Hey friends!

I think that's a good synopsis Nobu...those simple guidelines will go a very long way to total recovery and lessen chance of relapse. I do have more to add, just some similar experiences to highlight what you've already said but I am coming down from a very recent (moderate) session myself and am still having difficulty focusing...I promise more later! Much love to you all...
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: Withdrawal from different substances
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2010, 03:50:31 PM »
I have kind of been stuck at 30 mgs of morphine sulfate a day.  It's MS Contin, which is extended release.  I do bite em up a good bit before swallowing them, though.  I am wondering how long I should wait before doing iboga.  I normally take my dose around the same time each day, have been sleeping and waking normally, and using the bathroom regularly, so there are no real issues to speak of.  The pills I have are 30 mgs of morphine sulfate.  I tried to divide the pill several times but as small as I can guesstimate, dropping 5 mgs in a day, definitely gives noticeable withdrawal after about 8-12 hours.  

I haven't been able to chop the pills small enough to keep a steady decrease, and was wondering if I should continue to try and step down, perhaps by dissolving the crushed pills in say 300 mls of water.  That would make each 100 mls, 10 mgs of morphine.  I was thinking dropping 2-5 mgs every 3-5 days, but am wondering if it's even worth it to try and go lower, since 30 mgs seems pretty low, already.  I don't want to suffer any withdrawal, and dropping 1/4 of a pill at a time (7.5 mgs) definitely causes withdrawal, but dividing the pills evenly into such small pieces is difficult.

I have 5.8 g crude freebase iboga alkaloids, from 68 grams of bark.  It has been kept dry, in a sealed, opaque container in the freezer, since it was made a few weeks ago.  I was planning on taking about half, for my flood dose, which would be about 2.9 grams, which I estimate to be about half actual iboga alkaloids.  So it would be around 1.4-1.5 g of actual iboga alkaloids.  I know I am not allergic to iboga, as I have taken it twice, and am wondering if I still should take a test dose?

Also, should I spread the dose out over a period of time, or should I take the whole flood dose at once?  Is 24 hours since my last slightly chewed up dose of MS Contin (extended release morphine sulfate), a decent amount of time?  I usually wake up with minor withdrawal symptoms, like chills and goosebumps, although, I am far from in full withdrawal.  I imagine by 48 hours after my last dose, I would be in full withdrawal, but at this point, it may be hard for me to swallow several capsules and keep them down, as the withdrawal makes me much more likely to vomit, and causes diarrhea.  I guess I am looking for any suggestions in dosage and how long to wait before dosing.

Once again, I have 5.8 g of freebase alkaloids, from 68 grams of bark.  In the same extraction I used, Chris Jenks says after dissolving the freebase in acetone, about 50-60% of that is left as an insoluble plant material, meaning that my 5.8 grams is probably about 2.9 grams of actual iboga alkaloids, total.  I was guessing half of this would be plenty for a 70 Kg person.

Thanks in advance for any and all help.
GratefulDad

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Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Withdrawal from different substances
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2010, 07:47:00 PM »
My brother - I hear every word you're saying. The (opiate) dose you are on is totally optimal for this. And as long as you are in acute WD you may begin. No need to exceed 24hrs of misery... Take a test dose of perhaps a third of your measurement, then when you feel comfortable (no wd) take the rest all at once. If you only plan on doing half of the extract, this will leave you plenty of room for contingencies: if you are not where you want to be in a few hours slowly bump up until you are. You've got all the ducks lined up...I'm rootin for you!
« Last Edit: February 19, 2010, 07:51:13 PM by calaquendi »
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Nganga Nobunoni

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Re: Withdrawal from different substances
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2010, 08:50:56 PM »
Hiya GD' just switch and walk through the transition' fear is fear' a self creation'
The dose you are on is optimal'
200mg Ibogaine wiped out 100mg "H" a day' it was felt at the 45 minute mark' increase in seretonin and dopamine' expanded conciousness' all the worms of withdrawal pushed away from the receptors for 12 hours'
A top up dose of 170mg Ibogaine' followed by 3 nites sleep' no withdrawal expereinced other than the first few hours awaiting to clear the "H" from the receptors'

So I would say you would feel no thing from 30mg of morphine' no matter of what state it is in'

You got plenty of alks' use em'
When you come back take 100mg top up doses' you shall realign within a couple of days' less if you hit it hard'

Rooting for you bro!

Sickness and withdrawal is a state of mind' you look to be sick so are sick'
Every withdrawal is different' the only useual is that you come back cold after 3 days of withdrawal pain from short acting'

Roughly 10 days pain from methadone' come back cold for a furhter 18 days'
7 days from Subutex' but the first 4-6 days is the worst'

I must admit heroin and morphine are easy withdrawals' they follow a set pattern and are over inside of 72 hours'

It is the long acting opiates that are the real bitch' and un-predictable in the amount of pain one must take to kick em'

I hope the next time I come here you have wiped the morphine out with Ibo bro!

Be Well!

Nobu +
« Last Edit: February 22, 2010, 08:55:20 PM by Nganga Nobunoni »

Offline x

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Re: Withdrawal from different substances
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2010, 01:47:17 PM »
Hey guys, just wanting to share. Did what I thought was going to be a straightforward oxy detox. Man travels thousands of miles to where I am, we are set to roll. Oh, btw, I have been on methadone for a month. How much? 96/day. Ah jeez.
So, you know this will be rougher? You know you may not sleep well for a month? You know you may need the boosters much sooner than later, and you may just feel like shit? Yes? Still want to do this?
Yes, still want to do this.

I call to check on him, no response. Husband calls, another friend calls. No response. I get a call yesterday.
'i'm in the hospital'

shit, why?

'i can't sleep and i am depressed'

oh lordy.

we talked, i reiterated everything
he could do to feel better -SAMe, exercise, hot baths, hot food, valerian, melatonin- reassured he would not die, that it was normal, his reaction. I don't think i will do this again, people, switch to short acting, and tell your provider the whole story.

poor guy, scared and confused. i won't bend in the future because i don't want to dissappoint someone. that was my mistake.

He reports no w-d, no cravings, he'll be fine. in april.

yeesh.

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Withdrawal from different substances
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2010, 06:24:27 PM »
HAHA - You crakin me up Nobu  ;D - love the expletives!

Tia - you're encountering the typical addicted mindset. It's not 'Oh I forgot I was on methadone" - it's "Hmmm I bet if I tell her I'm on high dose of methadone she won't treat me cause I already said I was on other shit"...Big ups to you my friend. You're taking it and rolling with the punches. We can all learn from this. Bless you my dear!
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline x

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Re: Withdrawal from different substances
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2010, 11:37:02 AM »
Right you are, Nobu. Been 'back' to himself for about a week. Has decided to move across the country, change his hobby to his career, rearrange the circles he moves in. :D

Clean and happy, he is.

T

Offline Classicwater28

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Re: Withdrawal from different substances
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2010, 02:54:45 PM »
So I have come across three options for my withdrawal from suboxen- Vicoden, Poppy Seeds, and Tramadol anyone have any experience/suggestions for the the route I take to get the suboxen out of my system until I try to find the ibogaine?

Thanks
Garrett
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Offline GratefulDad

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Re: Withdrawal from different substances
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2010, 04:16:25 PM »
Like Cal said in the other thread, poppy pods sound like your easiest option.  It would take dosing with vicodin every 6 hours, and tramadol probably pretty close to the same.  With the poppies you can dose once a day, not to mention they are under a $1.25 a pod usually..
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Offline CJnLV

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Re: Withdrawal from different substances
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2010, 06:59:14 AM »
Any suggestions of dosages for Ibogaine and methamphetamine use? Not me, but another member of this group, a long time user.

How about dosages of Ibogaine for a longtime opiate user who managed to get off all opiates (script and heroin) and other prescription drugs (Xanax, Ambien, Somas) 14 months ago, but is still in daily pain? I am not going to experience withdrawal, thank God. Been there too many times, but even knowing how bad withdrawal was, I still want to feel the relief from pain I get when I take them, and it's been 14 months. It's a daily battle in my head, pain vs pills. I've read Ibogaine can unclog the receptors in my brain, allow my body to produce its own endorphins, and quit sending me the message that I am in constant pain, give me my life back. Do I need the same as a currently using opiate addict, more, or less?

Hours of research has only provide us with dosages for opiate addicts who will go into withdrawal, and we are unsure if we should take the same dosage. Any suggestions of where we may obtain information on either of these topics would be greatly appreciated.
I gave those monkeys on my back a long, long ride and when I finally kicked them off, they left deep deep painful scars in me.
Daily they still taunt me, from the side of the road, waiting for another ride.
Cindy

RavAv

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Re: Withdrawal from different substances
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2010, 10:04:06 AM »
my best advice is e-mail directly sarah glatt - she has treated close to 600 people and is more than willing to share her knowledge

Sara Glatt <sara119@xs4all.nl>


this i found on a web site - so it is not mine

Opioids
Under no circumstance can a treatment commence until sufficient time has passed since the last use of an opioid. In the case of heroin the minimum is 8 hours. For morphine, 24 hours. And for methadone the client should have switched to a shorter acting opioid such as heroin or morphine, at a minimum 5 (24 hour) days earlier. The use of an opioid during a session will lead to a potential death as ibogaine resets the brains opioid tolerance.
Alcohol
Alcohol dependence is treated where the client has abstained for at least 1 month. However it is necessary to use a benzodiazepine such as klonopin which is specifically known for its ability to interrupt seizures more successfully than other benzodiazepines and is often prescribed as an adjunct medication for epilepsy patients. The risk with alcohol of seizures is not high but it can be minimised with the use of an anti-seizure medication during the session.
Stimulant Dependence
Ibogaine can also successfully interrupt stimulant addictions, mainly through its ability to modulate the release of dopamine in the brain and "reset" countless other neurochemical pathways, many of which are still not yet understood. Withdrawals from cocaine and crack are usually not physical; they are generally "mental" in the sense of the addict experiencing intense anxiety, sleeplessness, and constant cravings for their drug. Because stimulant dependence is mainly connected to the release of the neurotransmitter dopamine, ibogaine interrupts these "mental" withdrawal symptoms through its action on the dopamine pathways, changing the way dopamine is released.
Methamphetamine, when used heavily, can cause a physical withdrawal syndrome.
Benzodiazepines
Reports on the ground indicate that ibogaine does not reset tolerance to benzodiazepines. However it seems the original Indra extract does and it may be resonable to speculate by extension that a properly prepared extract of iboga will also do the same as both consists of the many alkaloids in the iboga plant. However, there are many different extracts and from anecdotal reports some do not appear to work.
There is always a risk of seizures when withdrawing from benzodiazepines. During withdrawal, the risk of seizures increases by the size of the tolerance. For example, a person dependent on 3mg of xanax per day is much less likely to have a seizure during treatment than a person dependent on 10mg xanax per day.
Benzodiazepine-dependent individuals may try a variety of methods to avoid the risk of seizures. For example, lowering tolerance slowly before treatment would decrease seizure risk. Also, some ibogaine treatment providers suggest that small doses of a benzodiazepine be given during the treatment as needed to prevent seizures.


Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Withdrawal from different substances
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2010, 04:48:06 PM »
Quote
Reports on the ground indicate that ibogaine does not reset tolerance to benzodiazepines. However it seems the original Indra extract does and it may be resonable to speculate by extension that a properly prepared extract of iboga will also do the same as both consists of the many alkaloids in the iboga plant.

This is quite interesting, Rav. Benzos are notorious and dangerous to come off - as we all know, but this is the first time I have heard anything about the full spectrum alkaloid having a more pronounced efficacy in interrupting physical dependence to these drugs. Certainly worth looking into. BTW - isn't Indra extract a decoction?  Good post as always!
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline x

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Re: Withdrawal from different substances
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2010, 12:56:17 AM »
i'm in the woods, overlooking a river.
this is good, but no internet. on phone, forgive grammar. I do know about meth detox, takes a week. I will post details when I have proper internet. method comes from dream house, I think theirs is a bit longer, though, like 10 days.  it's boost, flood, boost. spread out.
y'all send a prayer for good m.l., in dere with his bwiti.
eon- I am so sorry I missed your call. I had phone issues. anger or no, I would have taken your call.
love to all.

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Withdrawal from different substances
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2010, 01:45:22 AM »
Candle lit...God bless.
" I am you and what I see is me..."