Author Topic: Comparisons between Iboga root bark, TA and Ibogaine  (Read 7194 times)

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Offline Bancopuma

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Comparisons between Iboga root bark, TA and Ibogaine
« on: January 19, 2011, 08:19:43 AM »
I've had 3 past flood dose sessions with these 3 different Iboga preparations, and I thought it might be useful to compare them for anyone who might be interested. Obviously these are purely my own personal and subjective experiences and observations.

1st session

TA - a total alkaloid extract of Iboga. Contains all the alkaloids in the root bark, but in a concentrated form that allows for easier dosing. My initiation experience, which is described on these boards, was with the equivalent of 22-24g of root bark. This was an incredibly deep and amazing experience; I would rate it as my most important single psychedelic/teacher plant experience of my life. Very deep visions, and a full on brain defrag, with an afterglow of many months.

2nd session

Root bark (14g). Physically and psychologically, a much harder experience, despite the much lower dose. 14g or root bark was all I could manage before I purged. The root bark felt much harder on my system. Dizziness and ataxia were the worse of my 3 experiences. I had to lie absolutely still for many hours, even slight movements of my head would result in powerful dizziness, visual flashing and nausea. At one point in the experience I got a high temperature for a while. I never broke through to the incredible realm of visions and visual thought I did on my initiation. Ultimately, the experience was still deeply cleansing, if hard.

3rd session

1g Ibogaine hcl + 100 TPA extract. TPA is an alkaloid extract containing Ibogaine and a few of the other alkaloids, unlike TA which is a full spectrum alkaloid extract. As a relative comparison with my other experiences, this dosage provided me with approximately 14.5mg/kg of Ibogaine for my bodyweight, which is an appropriate dose for psychotherapeutic use. The Ibogaine was smooth on a physical level, much easier on the body than the root bark. I was able to move around a bit, dizziness and ataxia were still present but MUCH milder than on the root bark (although this is just relative, I was still bed bound for 30+ hours). However psychologically, I actually found the Ibogaine hardest of all. All faults and inner demons were revealed, and there were many thoughts of death and mortality...it was a serious 30 hour psychological arse-kicking session, probably well deserved. Part of the hardness of this experience may be due to my not having a strong enough intention prior to journeying. Again, this experience was nowhere near as deep as my initiation experience.

With all these different preparations, it is important to stagger the dosing, to ease your system into the experience. The Bwiti feed people Iboga over 2 days, with the whole initiation being a week long affair. Using '00' capsules was a big help when dosing. I purged all 3 times, after which nausea was only a problem if I moved my head too quickly. A few observations of my experiences with this fascinating plant/chemical. Iboga is no pleasure trip...no way. It lacks any kind of recreational attraction, and doesn't even feel intoxicating in some respects. Pleasure seekers look elsewhere. However, all 3 of my experiences were deeply cleansing, with a long term healing afterglow. I think one’s initiation with Iboga will always an extra special experience relative to future ones. People experiencing Iboga, during the experience itself might get quite repulsed by it...it is always hard, sometimes pretty dark in nature, and at times you will likely feel downright miserable. But hang on in there. It will pass, and you will feel stronger and more solid as a result. My experience with the Ibogaine commenced a little over a week ago today, and it is only now I've really started to soar from it. So bear in mind much of the healing boost of Iboga comes AFTER, as oppose to during the experience.

Based on my personal experiences, the next time I would consider working with Iboga (and there definitely will be a next time) I would extract the alkaloids from the root bark and take it in the form of a TA extract. It has all the benefits of the 'whole plant' experience of the root bark, containing all the alkaloids, but is much easier to dose with, and seems easier and smoother on the body, while also being much cheaper than buying pure Ibogaine.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 11:03:46 AM by Bancopuma »

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Comparisons between Iboga root bark, TA and Ibogaine
« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2011, 09:42:55 AM »
Great post puma, you're a welcome addition to the forum. Well written and well thought out. I have yet to do any isolated ibogaine hcl, having only done TA's ('professional' and ones I have made from RB) and on two occasions eaten a pretty large amount of Wood. That's the hard trip right there, just eating it is an ordeal. Once - the first time I flooded with wood - I actually got 30g in, but the last ten did not stay in long enough for full absorption.  Plus, I ground it to a fine talc powder consistency and mixed it with honey to gag it down. In retrospect that only made a sticky mess of things and I think all the sugar contributed to the difficulty keeping it in. Second try with bark I was shooting for 30 but only got to 24, and that was barely doable. After the first ten I was having a hard time walking or even standing...the Wood is hardcore. I'll take bark again but probably not in flood amounts. I feel like I have paid my dues lol. I would very much like to try ibogaine some day, and I enjoy making extracts from root bark. GD is pretty handy with extractions too - he likes to take it down further than I do, as far as purification. I only use acetic acid (white vinegar) and shoot for extracting 50g's of wood at a time. This works like a charm, though some people are sensitive to highly acidified end product, it did not bother me in the least. My best experience to date was my first one where I did roughly 12g of a TA I made using the vinegar tek....actually it may have been more than that, but whatever the amount of extract was it equated to 25g of bark. It was very moving and very educational. I'm rambling, thanks for the great post.
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Offline crazylife

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Re: Comparisons between Iboga root bark, TA and Ibogaine
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2011, 03:37:05 AM »
Hi Bancopuma,

Would you say that the Ibogaine experience is the safest? If say someone came to you and said " i want a healing experience on iboga, do i take root bark, TA, or ibogaine?" - would ibogaine be the safest because its pure? And the least body load? 
I read a few trip reports on ibogaine HCL and they said it was less spiritual and more emotional, and focused more on emotional healing. Would you say the same?

Thanks, CL.

Offline Bancopuma

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Re: Comparisons between Iboga root bark, TA and Ibogaine
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2011, 08:13:54 AM »
Thanks Calaquendi for the good vibes and the reflection.  :)

crazylife - I know of a South African Iboga(ine) treatment provider and Bwiti initiate, and he is of the opinion that pure Ibogaine is safer, and this was also stated somewhere on www.myeboga.com. Another treatment provider in the UK who was there for initiation is also of the opinion that pure Ibogaine washes through one's system much faster than the full alkaloid spectrum, so the healing afterglow period is reduced. For me, pure Ibogaine definitely felt easier on the body in some respects, I was definitely less dizzy than on the wood, and it felt smoother on my body. If anything though it seemed as hard or harder on me psychologically. But yes I did find the Ibogaine to be less spiritual and more emotionally focussed. This South African treatment provider is of the opinion it is great for healing and working on specific issues as it is straight to the point. For me personally, I wouldn't seek pure Ibogaine again, I would make my own TA to flood with, I think the other alkaloids may be beneficial to have in the mix.

Offline rho

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Re: Comparisons between Iboga root bark, TA and Ibogaine
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2011, 09:50:53 AM »
Also consider that all TA's are not the same. I suspect that different batches of bark have different ratios of alkaloids. Voacangine, a minor but present alkaloid in iboga, is often reported as being very unpleasant in high doses (http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=70018). I have tasted some bark that seemed quite perfect as it was... non offensive taste, and really clearheaded effects.

There is a pretty well studied method of separating the ibogaine and some ibogaline from the other alkaloids by dissolving the PTA freebase in acetone and dripping strong hcl water till no more ibogaine/ibogaline precipitates. It would be interesting to correlate different effects with different alkaloids.

Offline crazylife

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Re: Comparisons between Iboga root bark, TA and Ibogaine
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2011, 02:01:11 PM »
Thanks for the info Banocopuma, appreciated.

Offline rOm

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Re: Comparisons between Iboga root bark, TA and Ibogaine
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2011, 11:34:18 AM »
I've always wondered this and think now, to the light of your own experience and price comparaison that a home extracted rootbark TA would be the way to go for me.
Have you did your three sessions with Iboga healing circle ?
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Offline harveyplex

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Re: Comparisons between Iboga root bark, TA and Ibogaine
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2011, 07:13:11 PM »
making your own ta is the way to go .

Offline skinny

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Re: Comparisons between Iboga root bark, TA and Ibogaine
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2011, 09:09:38 PM »
Bancopuma thanks for the report, do you mind if I quote your experience (without mentioning handle and forum link).  I'd like to share this info with others.

harveyplex, sounds like it's the most economical.  I was thinking of getting 5gr of TA from IW which would cost me ~$350...roughly how much of RB would be needed to make a TA extract...and cost.  I like the idea of combining it with acid, that's the first combo I've heard of.

thanks,
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Offline Bancopuma

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Re: Comparisons between Iboga root bark, TA and Ibogaine
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2011, 10:23:21 AM »
I definitely agree that different batches of root bark will vary in both potency and proportions of the alkaloids they contain. But yes I think a home extracted TA might be the best and most sure fire way to go for a flood dose session. This is quite a cost effective way to go as well compared to buying one's own TA or Ibogaine. It depends on the quality of the root bark, but say we want to obtain 25g of pre powdered root bark to perform an alkaloid extraction on. From a well known Dutch ethnobotanical vendor this will cost $104.00. A little more to cover postage costs and the chemicals you'll need and you're all good to go.

The first two sessions I experienced with a 'healer' on hand (diplomatic relations have since ceased) and the third time I took the Ibogaine on my own with a family member on hand if needed. skinny please use this info how you see fit, but bear in mind these are just my one time personal observations so should maybe be taken with a pinch of salt.

Offline skinny

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Re: Comparisons between Iboga root bark, TA and Ibogaine
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2011, 12:03:51 PM »
Ha well I googled '1g Ibogaine hcl + 100 TPA extract' and the first link was the DMT-Nexus crosspost. ;)  I just didn't want to be exploitative.

thanks,
skinny

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