Author Topic: Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga - (Now w/pics)  (Read 26454 times)

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Offline Calaquendi

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Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga - (Now w/pics)
« on: September 17, 2009, 10:22:40 AM »
**This is for research purposes only**

This is a safe and effective measure to collect all the essential alkaloids from the plant material without having to consume pure root-bark. Please take care using such a procedure. This will yield an 'acetate' salt, total-alkaloid from Tabernanthe iboga.

~Materials~
  • 50g (for this extraction) Tabernanthe iboga root-bark (NOT whole root!)
  • Bean/Coffee grinder
  • White vinegar (acetic acid)
  • Cloth filter (T shirt)
  • Paper filter (coffee filters)
  • Qt. sized mason jars
  • Plastic funnel
  • Scales
  • Glass baking dish

~Procedure~

Grind root bark into fine powder.


Cover with vinegar


Simmer on low heat for 60 - 90 min (do not boil).

Filter through cloth - collect solution.





Return plant material to pan and recover it with vinegar.

Repeat cook down 3 times.

Collect cloth filtered solution and filter through paper (coffee) filter


Preheat oven to 200F (ibogaine melting point is 300F).

Pour solution into glass baking dish.


Evaporate liquid in oven (leave oven door ajar) until dry.




Scrape residual with razor.

Weigh and load into gelcaps. Pray...

« Last Edit: April 28, 2010, 06:59:38 PM by pkeffect »
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Offline x

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Re: Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2009, 03:05:42 PM »
Thanks again for this. I tell ya, the pics helped me tremendously. Anticipating an expanded version! You rock, Cal.

Offline Psychenaut

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Re: Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2009, 11:04:59 PM »
There are methods of reconstituting the alkaloids back into a small quantity of the root back (indra extract method), this is supposed to make the alkaloid more stable if you wish to hold onto it for more than a few weeks.  Ibogaine seems to like to bond to other iboga alkaloids and make weird shit, I'm wondering if this happens in old acidic extractions and this is why I've gotten repeated headaches from some extracts that I'm guessing have sat around for some time.
I want all 5 stars and a tiara or I'm not playing!!! :p

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2009, 03:48:41 PM »
Here is a link to some extraction techniques and information for T.iboga and V.africana :

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70658

most of this looks complex and not very user-friendly-however if anyone here has the skill to decipher any of it in lay terms I'm all ears...
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Offline Eon T McKnight

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Re: Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2009, 03:55:09 AM »
There is one really important thing I need to know:  are the alkaloids in the root bark acidic (pH < 7) or alkaline (basic,  pH > 7)?

Which it is, I believe, is based upon the pH of the soil in which it grows.  For mimosa root bark, the Brazilian soil is probably acidic, the tryptamine is in an acid-salt form (alkaloid + tannic acid).  Adding acid to solubilize the alkaloids in mimosa is unnecessary.

However, it appears that the soil where Eboka grows is alkaline (my guess from photos) which would result in alkaloids in a free base form.  ((( this is just my theory, someone somewhere knows the real story, I'll bet.)))

Only by measuring the pH of a root bark solution can the appropriate solvent(s) and amount of acid or base be determined.

What is needed:  pH paper or meter; distilled H2O; (1) teaspoon of powdered root bark.

1.  test H2O to make sure pH = 7
2.  heat 150 ml H2O to boiling
3.  slowly add root bark (to prevent boil-over)
4.  stir occasionally until solution is at room temp.  Let stand.
5.  hopefully, powder will mostly settle to bottom soon and you can measure the pH of a fairly clear liquid.

Or, you can just send me a kilo or two of primo bark...  (hear me barking?) (arf arf)

My philosophy of making home-cooked TA extracts:  use only non-toxic, readily available substances (chemicals);  use as few of them as possible;  use as little heat as possible.

Of course, if you already know the answer to my question, you could just say so...

You can send comments & info to my email to keep the list clean, if you wish:  McKnight@ZettaCat.com

Guerrilla NeuroPharmacology ! ! !

~e

ANYONE w/ a high speed link and bittorrent?  There appears to be a gigantic trove (over 4 GB) of Eboka info here:

     http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71455&highlight=iboga


WHEW ! ! !  Lottsa info on that link, friend Cal.

Having done a coupla 2 - 3 extractions meself, I am so glad you asked for comments.   **** BIGASS DISCLAIMER  --  this is theoretical only, I have never tried this recipe w/ Eboka *****

The recipe below should work well for kitchen chemists w/ no lab experience.  Using ETOH is great because it filters and evaporates MUCH easier & faster that just H2O.  The whole thing could be done with only H2O with additional time and labor.

eon

PS  --  I keep finding mistakes/omissions.  It's late.  Yawn!  Please point out remaining goofs to me tomorrow...   ~e

"Put the rootbark into a large clean jar and add approx half a 70cl {think he means 700ml} bottle of vodka, two cups of red wine and the juice of a lemon. Some users like to also add a half-teaspoon of vinegar."

About 500 ml Vodka (ETOH + H2O) would probably be required for 28 g (1 oz.) of powdered root bark.  There should be as much clear ETOH on top as sediment + ETOH in the bottom layer.

I would forget the wine and lemon.

Only 1 source of acid (H+) is needed.  Vinegar is my favorite because it is standardized and it will evaporate when fully dried.  The question is "How much is necessary?"

If you have pH papers, you want a pH around 4.

W/o pH papers, it is necessary to estimate.  For a really good estimate you need to know the approximate weights of ALL alkaloids in the bark, get their molecular weights, and compute the number of moles.  OUCH!  Then add ~10% excess moles of vinegar.  DOUBLE OUCH!!

Easier to go out and buy pH papers...

Seat-of-the-pants?  Add 5ml (1 tsp) vinegar to each 30 grams of bark. Shake or stir like crazy.  Taste.  If it tastes sour-bitter like vinegar it should be good.  If it just tastes bitter (even though it smells like vinegar) you need to add more vinegar.  We want a slightly acidic solution, which should taste distinctly sour.

"Shake vigorously and then leave to stand for one week, shaking occasionally. "

If powdered bark is used, 2 days should be plenty (longer doesn't hurt).  If powdered bark in ETOH is VERY CAREFULLY heated, only 1 hour should be necessary (see crockpot below).

After extracting the alkaloids into the ETOH, taste again.  If the sour taste is gone, add more vinegar and repeat extraction.

Filter the solution now, not after it has been reduced!  If the solution is not real gunky (a highly technical term) you can decant and filter through a coffee filter.  Add some fresh ETOH to the root (make a slurry) and filter again.  Combine.

"After one week has passed, empty the contents into a bowl or pan and place gently over boiling water. DO NOT DO THIS CLOSE TO A NAKED FLAME AS ALCOHOL IS HIGHLY FLAMMABLE. ENSURE THE AREA IS WELL VENTILATED. Alcohol boils at around 80 degrees centigrade, (as opposed to water which boils at 100). "

The trusty crockpot is the thing to use.  Fill the bottom w/ hot water, put a good fitting glass baking dish instead of the lid on top, pour extract into the dish.

"When the alcohol has boiled gently away, remove the bowl and strain the contents through cloth. "

It would be impossible to filter the contents if ALL the ETOH & H2O (Vodka is 60% H2O) has boiled away.  Better to filter the less concentrated solution anyway (see above).

Here, you need to decide if you want a tincture (~20% ETOH) or an aqueous extract (mainly H2O  --  you'll never get ALL the ETOH out) or a solid.  Since the ETOH will evaporate faster at first, reducing the solution by half should give you ~20%.  Such a tincture is stable and will not allow micro-organisms to grow, even for long periods at room temperature.

Reducing further will give a more highly concentrated extract with less ETOH.

Reducing CAREFULLY to dryness (probably a tarry consistency) will yeild an unrefined Total Alkaloid (TA) extract.  Please note: the extract CAN BE BURNED at temperatures less than boiling H20 if left on the heat too long.  No place for ADD!

The advantage to a dried extract is that it can be weighed and doses standardized.  Plus, it (and the tincture) can be kept indefinitely in the freezer.

"(The solid that remains should no longer have the bitter taste it did prior to beginning the extraction. If it does, mix everything back together and return it to the jar for another week. Then repeat the above.)  Assuming that the solid is not now distinctly bitter, discard it and allow the liquid that remains after straining to stand for about 12 hours.  The extract is now ready for consumption.

"Storage - It is recommended you consume the extract within a few days of making it. However, if necessary, it can be stored for about 2 - 3 weeks in a domestic refrigerator. After this period it will begin to brew, and the composition will be altered. Smelling the extract will tell you if it's started to deteriorate."

« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 09:58:56 AM by Eon McKnight »

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2009, 02:27:05 PM »
Hey McKnight!

Great links and information...

As my own internet connection is wishy-washy right this minute, I am afraid I have to be brief - but I promise to post more later.

Your question about the pH of the naturally occurring alkaloids is very interesting. I was under the impression that most if not all alkaloids are basic in nature, hence the word 'alkaloid' coming from 'alkaline'??..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkaloid - but how could this be, some plants are highly acidic so you can do fairly easy alkaline extractions on them  ???

Obviously I'm no chemist...probably be in jail if I was!!!  ;D But I do have years of experience extracting alks from plant sources, in fact before we came up with the acetic acid 'tek' we tried an STB (Straight -to -Base) on a small portion of RB...this did nothing, at least at first. We left it sitting in solution for some time (days, weeks?) kinda forgot about it, but when we looked again, there were what appeared to be crystals forming in the NP solvent layer (naptha). Too little material to gauge anything from, but enough of 'something' to pique interest. Root Bark is expensive not to mention hard to come by, so this 'method' will be hard to reproduce, and anyway this (even if it worked) would yield a free-base material that I've never worked with...The bark itself is almost certainly acidic, not sure how this effects the extraction of the alks, or even what pH the alks are naturally occurring. Acids are sour to taste and once you've tasted many many acids you can pretty much tell what is and is not. I realize this is the crudest of the crude so far as methods go, but in lieu of having a GC/MS in my basement I'll have to settle for the 'old ways' and some litmus paper...

The last time we made the extract from iboga, we diluted the vinegar, which was standardized at 5% acidity, with the same amount of h2o and the outcome was identical. Technically I think just 'cooking' the bark in water would yield similar results. I am not sure. If this is the case, I suppose these alkaloids exist in salt form...when you do an A/B (acid-base) extraction on something, it is to convert the salts to free base...this would also indicate that the DMT in mimosa exists in salted form naturally..so 'alkaloid' here seems almost misleading??

Mimosa hostilis (Tenuiflora) is certainly acidic, so you can just hit the powdered bark with alkaline water and add np solvent to yield a pretty pure DMT from -a free base of course. Having ingested this with caapi for ayahuasca sessions, I will say here that I much prefer the naturally occurring form of alkaloid. Maybe you can help to clear some of this up hehe I hate to answer questions with a question, but here I have only my experience as a guide. Basement shaman trade ideas all the time and I think it is as much an art as a science, not meaning that the science shouldn't be reckoned in...

Well I've just proof read this and I hate to dump a bunch of text I've worked on, so I'm keeping this load of crap, if anything, perhaps you are amused...I like the tek you have at the end of your post, there's an alcohol extraction that was popularized in I think the 80's (?) that yields a liquid - called "Indra"(??) - seems pretty damned gross...Any way, when I get to my buddies I'll steal highspeed and be able to more accurately peruse your post...keep up the good work my friend, we're all in this together!!
« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 02:29:39 PM by calaquendi »
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Offline Eon T McKnight

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Re: Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2009, 08:26:33 PM »
Cal!  Compadre!!

Neither of us are chemists.  It appears that I might know a little more about the nuts and bolts than you.  Basically, we just know enough to be dangerous, which is not all bad.  I hear women like the dangerous, outlaw types like us.  ;)  (2 bad it ain't true...   )  :( 

FIRST AND FOREMOST:  Call upon your mighty powers of belief, and please believe me, we NEED to know the pH of an aqueous bark solution.  Not necessarily to get all the alks out, but get them out quick and easy with minimal crap (another scientific term) along with the Good Stuff (GS).

OK, now on to Chem 101.

Alkaloids are alkaline when in their free-base state.  I.e. free-base alkaloids are alkaline/basic -and- have a net positive charge -and- a ph > 7.

What a free-base looks like is     (alkaloid)-OH

Add acid (e.g. HCl) to an alkaloid and the H+ Hydrogen cation ( +proton) from the acid combines with the OH- hydroxy anion ( - ) like the North and South poles of a magnet (not really, but sorta) leaving the acid anion (CL-) attached to the alkaloid.  (Which is no longer an alkaline free-base alkaloid, it is now an "acid salt".)  PHEW!

When you add an acid to an alkaloid, you get an "acid salt"  (alkaloid)-Cl  -and-  a net negative charge  -and-  pH < 7.

The free-base alkaloids are typically non-polar and do not have oppositely charged 'ends' (geometrically speaking) and are soluble in non-polar solvents like ether and naphtha.

Due to the negative charge of the anion (Cl, e.g.) the acid salt has polarity, (sort of like a bar magnet) with positive and negative ends.  Acid salts and other polar compounds are soluble in polar solvents, such as water.

That's why you keep you cocaine-HCl dry and your crak craks (boiling, undesolved water).  They now teach that to High School Chem students, don't they?  (snicker)

The DMT in mimosa is present as an acid salt "(DMT)-tannic acid" and can be extracted as-is with water (or vodka).  (see DMT-nexus.com if you don't believe yer buddy Eon.  Try searching for "water extract".)

Bear in mind that there is a pseudo-infinite number of ways to skin a cat.  My objective is high efficiency, low cost, easy to get chems, simple procedure and CLEAN product.  Mr Clean would be so proud!

If Eboka is the same as mimosa, no acid or base would be needed to get it into ETOH.  Hence, less crap in the final product.  Unfortunately, I doubt that is the case.

Since acid salts are more stable and more quickly absorbed (less icky gunk in sweetie's tummy to make upchuck) we will want to end up with a 'salt'.

If I'm going to spend hours writing this up, I want to be darn sure I got it right.  ! ! ! AND ! ! !    Anyone using the tek will get the absolutely sweetest tasting results possible.  Need to measure that pH!  It could take a very long time to track it down on the web.

~e

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2009, 08:52:31 PM »
My good man...

Thanks for the tutorial, you are now stuck in the job...you have only yourself to blame.  ;)

Concise explanations, I would really like to hear more!

So far, I am only proficient in some A/B, STB...and various tea and tar methods (mimosa, other DMT plants, cactus, yage) along with the crude TA at the top of this thread...

It would seem to me that actually reading the entire thread has it's benefits. That way when when one does a cursory glance and then replies (like I did) he doesn't eat his sneakers hehe..

Glad to have your advice and interest! That's what it's all about!!
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline Eon T McKnight

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Re: Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2009, 10:13:25 PM »
Oh, gee whiz, there's the bell...

OK class, and you especially Calvin, there WILL be a test on Monday!

Now, I want you all to go home this weekend and read chapters 1 - 36 in your text books!

This test will count on your final grade!

And, NO, eating cactus does NOT count as an excuse!

D I S S S S M I S S E D ! ! !

What?

CLASS!

CLASSS ! ! !

NO.  Absolutely NOT!  Halloween is NOT a Holiday!
« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 10:19:35 PM by Eon McKnight »

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2009, 10:18:51 PM »
haha it is for me... ;D

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Offline x

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Re: Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2009, 07:45:51 PM »
Keep it coming, dangerous gents.

This is not my forte, and never will be (too many other things to study!!!), but I am glad to count hobbyist chemists among my friends! Please send me all your extra ibogaine. You can use the Mexican address.
 ;)

Offline Eon T McKnight

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Re: Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2009, 11:17:46 AM »
****   CAUTION    ****    CAUTION    ****    CAUTION    ****

DO NOT TRY COMBINING EBOKA TA EXTRACT WITH AN MAOI ! ! !

Unless and until you know ALL of the compounds present in the TA extract.

Reason being that a TA extract MIGHT contain tyramine or some other toxic amine normally deactivated by MAO.  I have been unable as yet to ascertain a complete list of compounds present in Eboka root bark.  Until an accurate list of compounds is discovered, the safe and wise approach is to assume the worst.

Links or other info re:  scientific papers listing ALL compounds, not just alkaloids, in Tabernanthe iboga will be appreciated.

~eon

Offline x

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Re: Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2009, 07:47:20 PM »
A small thing: I have read (somewhere) that heat is uneccesary for the vinegar extraction, yet letting sit for a week seems would cause bacterial growth.
Any thoughts?

Tia to the maxx

Offline Calaquendi

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Re: Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2009, 02:18:36 PM »
You read correct information Tia...heat is only used to expedite the process - the extraction can be done in hours versus days or even weeks. Since many people come to iboga tail-in-hand, my guess is that they have feelings similar to my own : "let's get this going"

As for bacterial growth - I really dunno, that's a good question. Certainly possible, maybe even likely...probably probable...

I personally would not mess around with a soak in water/acid. Only way I'd be comfortable is steeping it in alcohol (per other extraction 'teks') and I am not the go to guy for directions there... ???
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline x

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Re: Total-Alkaloid Extract of T.iboga
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2009, 04:14:44 PM »
Thanks, brothermine.  :D