Author Topic: Hello Im new to these Forums Help Pleeeeease!!!!!!  (Read 8176 times)

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Offline Lou12

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Re: Hello Im new to these Forums Help Pleeeeease!!!!!!
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2010, 05:50:17 PM »
You seem to be missing the point, I am not speaking about RECRATIONAL" Drug Users"  I am speaking about people who choose to Feed thier Greed, 4 money, by selling a product which causes Absolute Destruction, Would u feel comfortable in giving a person who has not ever tried Heroin, the Drug itself? Ive obviousley touched a nerve, all I was saying in the first place, is In my Opinion that Dealing in Drugs is the lowest of the low, u would have to be a very spineless person to know that u the Drug Dealer, knowingly is selling something 4 thier own financial gain, that can potentally kill on the spot, or knowing that that person, whether they can "Control Drugs or not, is going down the road to destruction.

And ur Drug dealers must come in a very small minority, just because he gives u some 4 nout that make them a nice person, the same person who is providing u with a Drug that will kill u, come on!!!!!!!.
Are we talking about Crack and Heroin here, cos thats wot im talkin about!!!   Wow a drug dealer with Morals, thats hilairious!!!  U can not justify it, its wrong, thats y they have Laws against it, in my opinion, they should give harsher penalties, then they would think twice about doing it, in ur previous message, u state that a Drug addict is responsible 4 his/her own actions and should be law abiding, though shall not thieve or steal or kill, or pay the price, and drug dealing comes under that too it ILLEAGAL, for a reason!!! because u r potentially killing someone, if the drug dealer wasnt there, then thats up to the Drug addict to find away, maybe there will be less addicts on the street, it is a choice, illeagal drugs are very tabu, and thats y people choose to do them cos they feel they r rebelling, not all drug users, some actually  need them because of the depression, there are plenty of drugs that r legal that can deal with Depression.. Alot of Addicts dont realise what they r getting themselves into at first, they think they can handle it, put it down to recreational use!!

They Grade Drugs too, cos of the effect it has Grass is in a lower grade to Crack and Heroin, and so it should be, it doesnt cause destructive behaviour, thats y its in a diff class, Alcohol is legal, where as Alcohol, can cause some to behave destructivley, it depends on the person, but Crack/Heroin No No, its complete destruction, its all good at first, then most if not all become addicted, and desperate, and end up dying or in jail, and bak to square one.

And by saying that someone who has a strong opinion, on a subject that is extremely sensitive to the majority of people who are affected by this DEADLY Behaviour, might aswel be a racist or sexist, is Ignorant, a Drug dealer, who by the way, most of them are not distorted by Drug Addiction themselves, know damm well wot they are doing, unlike the Drug user, who are seriousley addicted, they are  basically saying that its ok to sell these evil substances that cause death and more crime..

Il say it again, exactly wot I meant in the first place

People who sell Hard Drugs in my opinion have no Morals, just because they give out Freebies now and then doesnt make them nice people, where are the morals, tell me??  If u want to reply to me again, dont change the subject, answer this question, where are the morals in Dealing in Crack and Heroin, maybe u think its morally ok do you?

Im not talking about freedom of choice, or responsibility!! And I am certainly not saying that its the Drug dealers fault for my Drug use, read my introduction!!!

And as u have stated u r sorry 4 my choice of Drug dealers in that they have not provided me with the finest of quality of the Drug, Oh yes they did, it was so pukka, I came back 4 more and more, and they was handing it to me on a plate, when I was not phoning them anymore, cause I wanted to give it up, what they was doing was punting 4 my custom, as they do to others.

My real friends are the ones who have helped me thru the hard times, not tried to shove drugs under my nose..

Dont get me wrong, I was just expressing an opinion, I would even go as far to say that most Drug dealers have a problem in itself, they have this burning desire to line their greedy pockets, to surround themselves with material things just to make themselves feel better, maybe they have insecurity probs, cos they arnt doing it 4 the good of the addict are they, maybe u should be afriend and try and get them out of this crazy lifestyle before it winds them up in jail, u wouldnt want to see that happen to a good Friend would u?, the same I wouldnt want one of my good friends get caught up in really addictive drugs, I dont go around protesting harsher penalties 4 Drugdealers, it was just an observation and its seemed to have really touched a nerve in u.

 I put my energies into staying safe, and helping others! 

Im sorry to hear abt ur post acute withdrawals
Greatful Dad

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: Hello Im new to these Forums Help Pleeeeease!!!!!!
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2010, 06:37:49 PM »
Ibogaine can kill you, and anyone selling it is in fact a drug dealer..  Look at the host of complaints about treatment providers.  Lots of people feel they weren't treated properly, were ripped off, and some have died.  How is that any different than a drug dealer who sold you heroin and had the same effect?  A drug is a drug, and intent is what matters.  Knowledgeable use of drugs can be profound for the user, and so education is what is needed more than regulation, IMHO..

I definitely can justify drug use.  I went to a vendor online to purchase poppy pods, a plant that is fairly simple to grow and can provide me with total pain relief.  If I couldn't buy them, I'd probably grow them myself.  It is addictive, but do I hold the person selling pods responsible for my use?  Hell no!  I am the one making a choice to use a drug, and I choose where I purchase it.  Most heroin dealers I knew, even the grubby ones, wouldn't try and turn on people unfamiliar with it.  Not to say it doesn't happen, but you obviously have dealt with some ruthless fucks, that probably would do the same thing with anything they are involved with.  It's called being selfish and greedy, which too, are addictions.  

I don't care if it's some coca leaves in tea or a crack rock, it's the same drug.  Many people use coca tea the same as caffeine, should we hold coca-cola responsible for all the caffeine addicts of the world?  How about the coffee makers and growers?  Perhaps we should lock up all the no doze dealers of the world, since they are obviously selling an addictive drug that could kill or cause problems.  

I am simply stating, just because you are unable to use a drug successfully, without causing you pain, doesn't mean that joe blow on the corner can't and should be punished for yours or my shortcomings.  You can blame anyone one you choose, but in the end, it came down to your choice of what to buy, who to buy it from, and how and why you use it.  That blame lies with you, and your choice.  The consequences of your lack of self control should not dictate what anyone else does.  

We will never be able to eradicate drug use, because people obviously want them.  Where there is a will, there is a way, as there should be.  Seeking to control others choices because of your own short comings is prejudiced, and blaming the actions of some drug dealers for your lack of self control does no good for anyone.  If we legalized drugs we could use taxes and profits to fund addiction treatments and proper drug education.  

If you think opiates are so evil, tell that to the cancer patient just hanging on or the guy with a broken back who needs these things to live a quality life free of debilitating pain. Regulation would be easier to implement, if things were legal.  Most kids can get heroin or cocaine way easier than alcohol, so why not regulate drugs the same way they do with alcohol and cigarettes?  

When does it become the responsibility of the user?  I could drink 10 gallons of water and die, but you aren't gonna hold the bottler accountable for my misuse of their product, are you?  I mean I just have problem with the logic.  We've been making harsher penalties, and throwing more and more people in jail every day, and our jail populations continue to rise.  Families are ripped apart, killers and rapists get less time, all because of the money that cops can attain with the current drug policy.  The whole policy needs to be changed, and if you look at other models, in countries that allow possession of drugs for personal use, they have lower incarceration rates, and less overall drug use.  Why do you suppose that is?  

We can debate for days on this, but all of it falls right back to the single point, two simple words, PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.  

If someone offers my children drugs, do I think they should be in jail?  Nope, I don't, as I have taught my children the truth about drugs.  I don't want anyone offering my kids drugs, but I also don't believe they should go to jail.  It is my responsibility as a parent to teach my kids the truth and to help them cope with daily problems in a healthy way.  Just because there are millions of parents who don't, doesn't mean that I should be restricted.  People of today forget to take responsibility for their choices, they get out of control, then seek to blame the thing that they got out of control with.  

I can spend way too much time on the internet, neglect my family and other personal responsibilities, so maybe we should limit the amount of internet everyone is allowed to use, or only allow it for those who have acquired special licenses?  Does that sound fair or practical?  

Addiction is a mental problem, and regardless if your drug of choice is women (sex), or heroin, an unhealthy balance in life is the problem, not sex or heroin.  That is what I truly believe.  Outlawing heroin and cocaine, and busting drug dealers with harsher penalties never stopped me from using, so why do you think it would stop anyone else?  

I just feel your anger is misdirected.  I feel if I fuck up my life, it's my fault, as no one held me down and made me take anything.  As for grading drugs, I know people who have been so addicted to weed (mentally pretty much) that they can't afford to pay their bills and have had problems.  I don't think that is any different than a heroin addict or a cocaine addict or a meth addict, or a TV addict, or a food addict, etc.  

It's not the object that causes the addiction, but rather the motivations/genes/problems of the person using the tool.  If you use heroin to cope, and get out of control, then that is YOUR fault.  Plenty of people use opiates daily, and benzos, and whatever, and they function just fine.

I don't imagine I can convince you, but maybe after you take iboga, free your mind and body of addiction, you'll learn that you had the power to do so all along, and you'll stop blaming drug dealers for your addiction.  

That's like me asking for a knife, then getting pissed at you for selling me one, cause I cut off my finger.  Whether it was an accident or not, it's not the knife sellers fault if I hurt myself.  Now one knife seller might give instructions on how to use it properly, install safety precautions, give me detailed instructions on how to use it, etc.  He would probably be the one I chose to buy my knife off of.  However you can go into millions of markets in the world, and buy a knife with no instructions, then go home and chop off your finger.  Now who's fault is that?  Is it yours for not making a proper educated choice?  Is it the knife company who made it?  Is it the market who sold it to you?  

Please, I know a lot of the questions I've asked might seem rhetorical, but go ahead and answer them anyways, I would love to see your answers, as I think you might open your mind to some of my logic..

EDIT: Also, I want you to know, you have not touched a nerve, or angered me in any way.  I truly enjoy the debate, and hope that you don't take any offense at my opinions.  They are my opinions and I am enjoying our debate, so please, this is all said with love and care in mind!  

Peace sister!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 06:54:51 PM by GratefulDad »
GratefulDad

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Offline GratefulDad

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Re: Hello Im new to these Forums Help Pleeeeease!!!!!!
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2010, 07:00:35 PM »
Sorry I didn't answer your question directly, but I think my last answer speaks for itself.

The question was "People who sell Hard Drugs in my opinion have no Morals, just because they give out Freebies now and then doesnt make them nice people, where are the morals, tell me??  If u want to reply to me again, dont change the subject, answer this question, where are the morals in Dealing in Crack and Heroin, maybe u think its morally ok do you?"

I specifically knew plenty of people who dealt, to support themselves and their habits.  Some would short you, rip you off, give you cut crap, etc.  Some however, would call me when they got a deal, would tell me how good it was, would give me a better deal than what was on the street.  They wouldn't deal in front of my kids, wouldn't allow me to go drive off after getting high, cause they didn't want my kids in jeopardy.  They also wouldn't turn on new people, and would often tell people interested how bad they were addicted and would turn them away.  These people had definite morals, and cared, but they often were addicts too.  You have given a stereotypical view of drug dealers, but remember they are people, and again, there is good and bad in all people.  Who you choose to deal with is YOUR choice..

I think selling drugs is morally okay.  I think that anyone who produces a product, regardless of it's safety for the masses, should be paid for their efforts and risks.  I don't care if it's cannabis or methamphetamine.  Some cannabis growers care so much, they grow only organic, use no inorganic pesticides, and harvest, trim, and cure it so the end product is of utmost quality.  I know meth cooks who will not dare put out anything but clear shards of meth.  They care definitely for the quality of their products.  I also know cannabis growers who grow huge yields of hydroponic pot, who don't trim well, don't flush properly, and don't cure properly, just so they can sell it and make money.  I know of meth cooks who will sell peanut butter meth (dirty shit with nasty byproducts in it).  It's not the drug they are dealing, but the person's intent that makes the difference..
« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 07:06:43 PM by GratefulDad »
GratefulDad

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Offline Lou12

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Re: Hello Im new to these Forums Help Pleeeeease!!!!!!
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2010, 07:10:21 PM »
Come on, Im talking about selling Drugs that lead to destruction, Tobacco, is a Drug, and that isnt destuctive, yes it can shorten ones lifespan, and cause illnesses, so does alcohol, but they are not destuctive are they, and that is my point, and its Legal, Y? cos they are not destructive!!

My point is that I think u have to be one sick Dude, to take pride in selling something, that is Evil, it causes so much devastation.  Thats y it is Illeagal, and so it should be!!!

You think its ok to make a living out of someone elses misery, and thats ur opinion!!!As for Ibogaine, its doesn't cause misery, so it seems!!!.

The Deaths are caused by people using Drugs after, or due to ill health in the first place, and its stated enough that u should have nessesary check ups before ingesting Ibogaine.

We all know the risks involved in Crack and Heroin, and in my case, I really was stupid enough in thinking, I had control over it!!!   DENIAL, is very ignorant!!!!!

Once again, Im not speaking about softer Drugs that don't pose many risks, like Caffine!!! or Weed, whether legal, or not!!

U r missing my point!!!!

So Greatful Dad, I take it u have Children, I understand fully where u r coming from, u think it is morally right to sell crack/heroin to people, knowing the devastation its going to cause.. Charming!

Offline Lou12

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Re: Hello Im new to these Forums Help Pleeeeease!!!!!!
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2010, 07:14:32 PM »
Y would someone who is a member of these Forums, whos signed in, want to remain Anonymous Mmmm!!!????

Offline Lou12

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Re: Hello Im new to these Forums Help Pleeeeease!!!!!!
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2010, 07:30:05 PM »
Oh I might add, I am not angry, I am in fact in a good place, I no longer have the desire to get off on Hard Drugs, I may be still addicted to an Opiate, But I dont use The Drug which was the Drug of my choice, and I could not kick that 4 a long time, I grew up, I done lots of homework on myself, and in fact, I am so so happy that Ive got past that, and faced my Demons, I am no longer in Denial

I may be sad abt the fact that Im still addicted to opiates, but I certainly dont waste my energy on being angry, at people, who I wouldn't piss on if they was on Fire  PPL who sell Crack/Heroin

Come on lighten up, and get off ur Soap box :D

Dont keep jumping off the subject, cause u want to argue 4 arguments sake, all I done was expressed my Opinion, On Hard Drug dealers, the Drugs that cause Devastation, not Tea or Coffee, Or Ibogaine, or Tobacco etc.

 Wow, im glad its not me with the problem, just a minor Opinion, that someone who's in DENIAL, who wants to rip me to shreads  BRO!!!!!!!!! ;D

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: Hello Im new to these Forums Help Pleeeeease!!!!!!
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2010, 07:52:22 PM »
Ibogaine has caused misery.. William S. Burroughs hated it!  Some have complained of PTSD after an uncomfortable iboga experience.  It has killed people.  Cigarettes and alcohol kill people every day.  And it's not the substance that is destructive, it's the way it's used.  Heroin does pretty much the same thing as oxycontin, yet plenty of people need oxycontin to deal with their pain.  

It's stated all over the place and ingrained in the youth of today that drugs are bad, same as ibogaine has loads of warnings, but that doesn't stop people from misusing it.  I have spoken with experienced ibogaine users, who know of a shaman who used iboga daiily and ayahuasca, in a shamanic context, and he has a pronounced tremor, like early stages of Parkinson's disease, he has almost no short term memory.  Guess maybe we should ban iboga, cause he misused it and now suffers the consequences, right?

I can honestly smoke as much crack as I want, then walk away from it for as long as I want, so why should I not be able to use it?  It doesn't cause me problems, but it must for you.  So why should I be punished for your problem?

Gee, Lou can't control her cocaine problem so no one should use it.  Lou can't control her opiate problem, so Frank with a broken back shouldn't have pain relief.  You are demonizing drugs in which you think are devastating, but for everyone who can't control themselves, I can show you someone who can.  

Selling heroin or crack to people does not cause devastation.  What someone chooses to do with it, might.  

I have friends who snort coke at parties, have a great time, and go on living their lives with out problems.  I know people who enjoy heroin once in awhile.  I know people who drink poppy pod tea, which has morphine, codeine, and other alkaloids, that are just as effective as heroin.  They don't have a problem.  Should they be prevented from using anything because some other person has a problem?  

I imagine you think that it is right to limit what I may do, because you cannot do it successfully.  Again it's no different than ANYTHING else.  It is a substance.  People drive cars and die in traffic accidents by the second.  It is deadly!  Anytime you get in the car you have way more chance of dying, than using a bag of heroin.  Look at statistics!  Maybe we should outlaw cars?

If you look at statistics, the number of people who cannot control their drug intake are the minority.  So because a few bad apples can't use a drug without ruining their lives, everyone has to suffer.  That is utter bullshit.  A drug is a drug is a drug.  Knowing the effects and learning how they work for you is your own responsibility.

I think this is probably the biggest problem with the society of today, everyone seeks to blame everything and anything else, other than themselves and the poor choices they make.  That's why we have so many people on welfare, asking for handouts because they fucked up their life and blame whatever else they can, besides themselves.  People are convinced addiction is a disease and they have no control, well I can tell you it's way fuckin hard to beat an addiction, but the power lies within.  As soon as people stop telling themselves they have no control, they begin to get control.  You have managed to get to a point in your life where you are seeking your control back, but you are giving drugs too much power.  A drug dealer can offer a product, but it's up to you to choose whether to use it, and how to use it.  THAT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY!!!

Go ahead and blame all the drug dealers for turning you into a junky, but I bet they didn't force you to take anything.  I can tell you how people can destroy there lives with anything you can imagine in the world, and drugs are no special case.  A drug is a drug, and they should be treated equally.  You can't have it both ways.  This drug is okay, but that one isn't because someone can't handle it.  Some people can't handle just about anything you can imagine, but that doesn't mean I should be restricted because of their problem.

Anyways, I think I have made my point..  I am going to leave my arguments as they stand, and I sense this heading into a negative direction.  I am obviously angering you, since you are making sarcastic comments about my opinions and ideas, calling me charming (sarcastically) because I believe in freedom and personal responsibilities, both of which I teach my children.

I do know that my children will be taking personal responsibility for their actions, no matter who the hell offers them anything, as that is what being a parent is about.  Teaching your children the truth and ways to deal with life in healthy ways.  

The reason ibogaine is illegal now, is because the guy who brought it to the masses was involved with LSD and a heroin addict.  People think, well someone died from ibogaine, it has hallucinogenic effects, it is harmful, and the junkies that want it should rot in hell since the drugs are illegal and they shouldn't use them.  Well, I say fuck those people, just because some idiot kills themselves with anything, doesn't mean I will, or should be prevented from using something that might help me, because someone else deems it dangerous or destructive.

FREEDOM!!!

Liberty

Words: Robert Hunter; music: Jerry Garcia

    Saw a bird with a tear in his eye
    Walking to New Orleans my oh my
    Hey, now, Bird, wouldn't you rather die
    Than walk this world when you're born to fly?

    If I was the sun, I'd look for shade
    If I was a bed, I would stay unmade
    If I was a river I'd run uphill
    If you call me you know I will
    If you call me you know I will

    Ooo, freedom
    Ooo, liberty
    Ooo, leave me alone
    To find my own way home
    To find my own way home

    Say what I mean and I don't give a damn
    I do believe and I am who I am
    Hey now Mama come and take my hand
    Whole lotta shakin' all over this land

    If I was an eagle I'd dress like a duck
    Crawl like a lizard and honk like a truck
    If I get a notion I'll climb this tree
    or chop it down and you can't stop me
    Chop it down and you can't stop me

    Ooo, freedom
    Ooo, liberty
    Ooo, leave me alone
    To find my own way home
    To find my own way home

    Went to the well but the water was dry
    Dipped my bucket in the clear blue sky
    Looked in the bottom and what did I see?
    The whole damned world looking back at me

    If I was a bottle I'd spill for love
    Sake of mercy I'd kill for love
    If I was a liar I'd lie for love
    Sake of my baby I'd die for love
    Sake of my baby I'd die for love

    Ooo, freedom
    Ooo, liberty
    Ooo, leave me alone
    To find my own way home
    To find my own way home
    I'm gonna find my own way home

EDIT:  BTW, someone might choose to remain hidden so they cannot be tracked as to how much they are visiting certain forums, or don't choose to let others know what they are doing.  Privacy is a nice option..
GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

Offline GratefulDad

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« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2010, 08:02:21 PM »
Also, I am not in denial, but I think it might be you denying that your drug problem is your fault.  Placing blame on people you asked for drugs.  That is denial, and lack of personal responsibility. 

We have to deal with regulations of this medicine, just like heroin, cocaine, or methamphetamine.  You do know there are a whole slew of addictive opiates used as medicine, and they work great?  Methamphetamine is a prescription drug as well.  Ibogaine is schedule I (possibly to be schedule II in light of some info from Dana Beal), which falls in the same category as cannabis, heroin, and cocaine. 

Someone obviously feels ibogaine is dangerous and has no medical value, the same way you feel about heroin or cocaine.  Now I have to put up with that bullshit ruling because some idiot couldn't take personal responsibility for their actions..
GratefulDad

"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason."

Offline Lou12

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Re: Hello Im new to these Forums Help Pleeeeease!!!!!!
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2010, 09:02:56 PM »
Hey Dude!!!

Calm Down, Lighten up, u keep bringing other Drugs into it!!!

U shud start ur own thread up, u feel that strongly abt it, my opinion will never Change, and remember IM NOT SPEAKING ABOUT OTHER DRUGS, its the ones that cause Imediate destruction, u and I both know what they are, and so does the rest of the population CRACK COCAINE AND HEROIN, ud have to be one shallow person to earn a living off of them Drugs alone...  Y does a person sell these Drugs, because of the profit that can be made from this Highly addictive Drug that clearly takes over, unlike no other drug, thats legal or not!!!   

U can dress this up how u want, or coming away from the point I originally made.

Ive come across someone who thinks its morally ok to sell Crack/Heroin... Wud u allow ur Kids to sell it?

Offline GratefulDad

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« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2010, 09:03:25 PM »
Quote
Come on, Im talking about selling Drugs that lead to destruction, Tobacco, is a Drug, and that isnt destuctive, yes it can shorten ones lifespan, and cause illnesses, so does alcohol, but they are not destuctive are they, and that is my point, and its Legal, Y? cos they are not destructive!!
Alcohol and tobacco are not destructive?  People destroy their lives with addiction to alcohol every day.  People lose control on alcohol, just as they do with heroin.  You do know heroin and cocaine withdrawal can't kill you, unless other medical problems are there?  Alcohol and benzo withdrawal can and will kill you.  

You think because some retards in our government say it's okay, it is?  I suppose people who prefer prohibition are too fearful of taking responsibility for their own choices.  You say that the drug dealer knows they are going to turn people into addicts and ruin their lives, but the drug user doesn't know.  Well who's responsibility is it to teach the drug user?  Who taught the dealer?  

I think you are portraying drug users as victims, rather than giving them the same criteria you are holding the drug dealers accountable for.  If you don't know what the drug will do to you, and it's possible outcomes, then you choose to do it anyways, or choose to think you can control it, WELL WHO'S FAULT IS THAT??  I am honestly pissed that the government can so easily brainwash people into thinking that drugs are the cause of their problems, when in fact it's the choices you make with that drug that cause whatever consequences that you have to deal with.

So is it okay to deal cannabis, since you don't think it causes destruction?  I know people have made their lives completely unmanageable with weed.  Do you think it's okay to sell alcohol, when people might take a drink and drive into a bus load of children?  
GratefulDad

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Re: Hello Im new to these Forums Help Pleeeeease!!!!!!
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2010, 09:12:48 PM »
You seem to be missing the point, I am not speaking about RECRATIONAL" Drug Users"  I am speaking about people who choose to Feed thier Greed, 4 money, by selling a product which causes Absolute Destruction, Would u feel comfortable in giving a person who has not ever tried Heroin, the Drug itself? Ive obviousley touched a nerve, all I was saying in the first place, is In my Opinion that Dealing in Drugs is the lowest of the low, u would have to be a very spineless person to know that u the Drug Dealer, knowingly is selling something 4 thier own financial gain, that can potentally kill on the spot, or knowing that that person, whether they can "Control Drugs or not, is going down the road to destruction.

And ur Drug dealers must come in a very small minority, just because he gives u some 4 nout that make them a nice person, the same person who is providing u with a Drug that will kill u, come on!!!!!!!.
Are we talking about Crack and Heroin here, cos thats wot im talkin about!!!   Wow a drug dealer with Morals, thats hilairious!!!  U can not justify it, its wrong, thats y they have Laws against it, in my opinion, they should give harsher penalties, then they would think twice about doing it, in ur previous message, u state that a Drug addict is responsible 4 his/her own actions and should be law abiding, though shall not thieve or steal or kill, or pay the price, and drug dealing comes under that too it ILLEAGAL, for a reason!!! because u r potentially killing someone, if the drug dealer wasnt there, then thats up to the Drug addict to find away, maybe there will be less addicts on the street, it is a choice, illeagal drugs are very tabu, and thats y people choose to do them cos they feel they r rebelling, not all drug users, some actually  need them because of the depression, there are plenty of drugs that r legal that can deal with Depression.. Alot of Addicts dont realise what they r getting themselves into at first, they think they can handle it, put it down to recreational use!!

They Grade Drugs too, cos of the effect it has Grass is in a lower grade to Crack and Heroin, and so it should be, it doesnt cause destructive behaviour, thats y its in a diff class, Alcohol is legal, where as Alcohol, can cause some to behave destructivley, it depends on the person, but Crack/Heroin No No, its complete destruction, its all good at first, then most if not all become addicted, and desperate, and end up dying or in jail, and bak to square one.

And by saying that someone who has a strong opinion, on a subject that is extremely sensitive to the majority of people who are affected by this DEADLY Behaviour, might aswel be a racist or sexist, is Ignorant, a Drug dealer, who by the way, most of them are not distorted by Drug Addiction themselves, know damm well wot they are doing, unlike the Drug user, who are seriousley addicted, they are  basically saying that its ok to sell these evil substances that cause death and more crime..

Il say it again, exactly wot I meant in the first place

People who sell Hard Drugs in my opinion have no Morals, just because they give out Freebies now and then doesnt make them nice people, where are the morals, tell me??  If u want to reply to me again, dont change the subject, answer this question, where are the morals in Dealing in Crack and Heroin, maybe u think its morally ok do you?

Im not talking about freedom of choice, or responsibility!! And I am certainly not saying that its the Drug dealers fault for my Drug use, read my introduction!!!

And as u have stated u r sorry 4 my choice of Drug dealers in that they have not provided me with the finest of quality of the Drug, Oh yes they did, it was so pukka, I came back 4 more and more, and they was handing it to me on a plate, when I was not phoning them anymore, cause I wanted to give it up, what they was doing was punting 4 my custom, as they do to others.

My real friends are the ones who have helped me thru the hard times, not tried to shove drugs under my nose..

Dont get me wrong, I was just expressing an opinion, I would even go as far to say that most Drug dealers have a problem in itself, they have this burning desire to line their greedy pockets, to surround themselves with material things just to make themselves feel better, maybe they have insecurity probs, cos they arnt doing it 4 the good of the addict are they, maybe u should be afriend and try and get them out of this crazy lifestyle before it winds them up in jail, u wouldnt want to see that happen to a good Friend would u?, the same I wouldnt want one of my good friends get caught up in really addictive drugs, I dont go around protesting harsher penalties 4 Drugdealers, it was just an observation and its seemed to have really touched a nerve in u.

 I put my energies into staying safe, and helping others! 

Im sorry to hear abt ur post acute withdrawals
Greatful Dad

OK before I start screaming here' it is no the drugs is the problem' it is the "Use" and resultant life style'
If you take "H" take it once' no keep repeating the same thing' this is of what causes the problem'

Also dealers are human beings and would no be dealers if all substances where legal' so if you wish to lay blame' blame governements'

Bliss!

Nganga Nobunoni +

Offline GratefulDad

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Re: Hello Im new to these Forums Help Pleeeeease!!!!!!
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2010, 09:27:29 PM »
I would prefer my children don't get involved with addictive drugs, but I believe they should have the right to use whatever they choose.  I will leave your thread, it's obvious that we will never agree.  

I don't understand how you can make a rule for two specific drugs that you feel are horrible, because of your experience, while the same can be said for nearly any drug, depending on the person using it.  The reason we can't use ibogaine today, is because people like you took it upon themselves to decide what was okay for me and my family, which pisses me off to high heaven.  

Who the heck are you or anyone else to decide what my family can or can't ingest?  It's made me extremely angry that anyone thinks they know better than I do about something, when they seek to limit my experience, which is exactly what you are trying to do with prohibition of certain drugs.  

Gee, mister government man says it's bad for me, and I shouldn't do it, so I guess I can't.  Well screw that, and shame to anyone who seeks to control my use of any drug I choose!  It's my body, my choice to make about what I put in it, and my consequences to deal with should I make a poor choice or lose control.

Anyone who refuses to take that responsibility is a child and should be treated as one.  I, however, am a grown, intelligent adult capable of making my own decisions. Anyone who tries to control my decisions is no friend of mine.  Prohibition didn't work for alcohol, and doesn't work for drugs.  Our prisons get fuller, killers and rapists, and violent offenders go free, while people who use drugs get to sit and rot.  

Please do show me where harsher penalties have prevented anyone from doing anything!  America has been getting extremely hard on crack, heroin, and meth dealers, has it had any effect in availability?  You want quality control?  You want regulation?  You can't control organized crime.  When one is removed two more pop up in his place.  People will never stop dealing drugs with the current drug policy in place, because a black market drives prices up and drives safety precautions and regulation down.  Who the hell wouldn't want to make loads of easy money?  

If it were treated the same as alcohol, we'd still have addicts, but they would be the same as an alcoholic, or a cigarette addict.  The shady dealings of unscrupulous dealers could be effectively eliminated, if you could walk into the pharmacy and ask the pharmacist for your drug of choice.  Sure some people wouldn't be able to handle it, but there would be quality control, better information, more education, and taxes could help pay for addiction treatment.  ibogaine could be purchased from your pharmacist or doctor, and you could receive the treatment you deserve.  

Some relevant quotes:

“Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation and makes crimes out of things that are not crimes.”  Abe Lincoln.

“For every prohibition you create you also create an underground.”  Jello Biafra

« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 12:46:01 AM by GratefulDad »
GratefulDad

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Offline Lou12

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Re: Hello Im new to these Forums Help Pleeeeease!!!!!!
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2010, 09:33:33 PM »
im not blaming anybody for my Drug use at all, if u read my thread, I take full responsibility for my own actions, and said the Goverment have alot to answer 4, I was merely expressing an opinion, and Im getting sick of typing this now, wow, il keep my opinions to myself in future, but where i come from we dont support the sale of HardDrugs, and I certainly dont blame them 4 others druguse, I just think its an awful way to earn money, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night, knowing that Im adding to the problem, thats already spiralling out of control!!!


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Re: Hello Im new to these Forums Help Pleeeeease!!!!!!
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2010, 09:38:04 PM »
And all I can say again is it is no the substances it is the "Use" we made choices' un-educated ones no doubt' and also we became wanton within our desires to keep taking "Shit" substances'
shouting and expressing this should be like this and that should be like that is a pointless waste of time'

Focus upon yourself and attempt to dig yourself out of the hole you made for yourself'
Every single day we used we chose to use' we could have stopped any time' but our self created FEAR prevented us from embracing the light'

No one ows anyone anything' we are the creators of our lives'

Quit bitching and start living!

Bliss!

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