Author Topic: Help for a Novice Please - Experiencing Withdrawal Exactly 1 Week After Ibogaine  (Read 8356 times)

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Offline April

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Thanks!  I will definitely check that out, and I look forward to talking with you when you feel up to it :)

Offline April

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Oh and by the way, I should've been more specific with regard to my boyfriend's dose, and what it is that has me so happy, hopeful & encouraged.... Before his Ibogaine session, he was taking 300 - 360mg of oxycodone a day.  Now, he is taking 45 - 60mg per day... a gigantic difference... and he feels fantastic!  He has no desire to take more, which makes the both of us ecstatic, because that is a huge step for him.  He used to take around 45mg or more per dose, but he would average a dose nearly every hour or two.  Now, he takes more like 15 - 22.5mg per dose, and only doses twice/day.  We never would've imagined that being possible.  And he's been doing this for almost a week now.  Normally, he would've planned to do something like this, and by the next time he was ready to take a dose, it'd all go out the window (just like most of us do).  There's something about that... when we're ON a pill or a high, we make all these plans & promises to ourselves regarding how we're going to improve our lives and get off these things.  Within 4 or 5 hours, we compromise, or justify, or put it off, and it just never happens.  When we're not on them, they're all we can think about.

Anyway, I thought it'd be important to list the specifics, especially for those out there that're seeking information about Ibogaine.  I will definitely keep everyone updated.  I think it's really important that I use Ibo to lower my dose as well, because if we're both in the same boat, we'll have a much easier time succeeding together and sharing the experience.  We're all each other have... no one else in our lives is aware of what we're going through or that we're even addicted to anything.  This is an experience we should be sharing in together, so it's time for me to get on board :) 

Offline sassyfras

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April, I think this is fantastic information for this board! Your boyfriend's huge dosage reduction IS miraculous...especially the fact that he is feeling so well on such a small amount. And I will get back to you with more info about my own microdosing experiences...I realize that I just kinda left things hanging at the end. Thank you for your clear & well written posts! I'm glad you're here.

Offline Calaquendi

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Hello April - thanks for sticking around, you getting help from others here consequently HELPS others, by simply sharing your experience and hope...that is what's so beautiful about this kind of thing. It's all reciprocated.

I want to caution you about 'dirty maintenance' as it is known: using microdose iboga/ibogaine concomitantly with narcotic analgesics to break tolerance down. As far as I know there IS no specific protocol for this type of treatment. This is primarily because such a protocol is going to be highly individualized...people have varying degrees of use, addiction and innate tolerance to their drug(s) of choice etc.

Please continue to research and ask alot of questions. Remember too that none of us here are capable of rendering 'official' medical advice - most of us have little or no medical training and are speaking strictly from the point of view of personal experience and what we have learned through just 'being around'. That, and our accumulated understandings of the way these things work from our own research.

Something I think you will discover - that unfortunately cannot be quantified (and so is ignored by the 'establishment) is that intuition plays an enormous role in people's work with these materials. It manifests in many ways - the obvious and physical determinations set by how our own bodies respond to the medicine -and other, more enigmatic ways which involve things like synchronicity and 'feeling'...trusting these intuitions, or learning to do so, is a major step (IMO) in learning the 'mechanics' of working with entheogens. Just because science does not yet possess the tools to measure these things by no means is proof that they only exist in our imaginations.

I will look around for information on 'dirty maintenance' - there is only one article that I am aware of, written by Patrick Kroupa a few years back, and I forget where it is published. There is scant info on this protocol mostly because it is not the most common way which iboga is used and it carries with it unique risks and dangers.

A conscientious and discerning grownup - which you seem to be - has every right in the world to pursue whatever help they can, provided that help does not harm anyone. Ibogaine research is mainly confined to the 'underground' because of the ridiculous legal status and so it is up to 'us' to learn what we can about all this while maintaining our integrity and doing our very best at providing real data and paying the utmost attention to harm reduction.

No matter what - TAKE YOUR TIME...please. The biggest mistakes are made when people rush this. And sometimes we do not get another chance. Iboga can be used safely - it is every single day - but use caution and don't rush in to anything. You have come a long way just knowing what you do, give yourself and your boyfriend the best chance for recovery by learning as much as possible, and not making any decisions until you are satisfied of the answers.

Thanks for being here with us, I look forward to hearing more from you - and best of luck to you!
" I am you and what I see is me..."

Offline Calaquendi

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AHA! I found the article I was speaking of....it was published in the spring 2005 volume XV number one of MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies)

Here is an excerpt:

“Dirty” Maintenance
For some, abstinence from narcotic analgesics is not a
reality-based goal. Many chronic pain patients are really
not going to cast off their crutches, light up some medical
marijuana and dance in the meadow, after ibogaine.
In addition to chronic-pain patients, there are many
people who are using narcotic analgesics
to self-medicate a variety of
comorbid conditions. In some cases a
“successful” detox from opiates means
that somebody can look forward to a
lifetime’s worth of maintenance on
neuroleptics.
Given the choice between opiates
and neuroleptics, there is no simple
answer, but the side-effects of current
anti-psychotic medications can be devastating. When
you compare the quality of someone’s life when they are
controlling schizophrenia, for example, through the use of
opiates (which tend to have extremely mild side effects)
vs. the qualify of life attained using sanctioned medicines
(usually neuroleptics, with Cogentin to alleviate some
of the side-effects anti-psychotics produce), it is entirely
possible, even probable, that the person is happier with
the opiates.
Ibogaine is remarkably effective in addressing one of
the primary problems in any sort of opiate or opioid maintenance:
tolerance. Over time, individuals find they must
do extremely high doses of their medications in order to
achieve any effect whatsoever.
WARNING: the following category should be considered
highly experimental. There is a complete lack
of published scientific data regarding the following
examples. The difference between 50mg. And 500mg. Is
extremely significant and quite possibly fatal. Ibogaine
potentiates the analgesic effect of opiates and opioids.
Individual 1: Male, mid-30’s, in good health, who has
experienced full-blown resets using ibogaine HCl in the
past. His average daily intake was 20Mgs oxycodone and
4–6Mgs hydromorphone (Dilaudid), which he is prescribed
for pain management.
By using a very low-dose regimen of 25–50Mgs of
ibogaine HCl on a daily basis, he was able to taper down
to a point at which 3.75Mg of oxycodone is subjectively
providing him with identical pain relief.
He began by taking 25Mg ibogaine HCl per day, and
was able to immediately halve his intake of narcotic
analgesics with no withdrawal symptoms or discomfort
whatsoever. After 6 days he increased the ibogaine HCl
to 40Mg, and at week two, he went up to 50Mg a day of
ibogaine HCl. After 22 days of ibogaine maintenance, he
took a ten day break, before returning to 50Mg which he
presently takes every other day. His intake of oxycodone
has remained consistent at 3.75Mg/day.
In his own words, “The goal with adding ibogaine to
the oxycodone is to minimize if not end the need for it
[oxycodone] for pain management. The HCl seems to
help with the pain, or at least gives me awareness to take
better care of my body by stretching, drinking more water
and to get outside for exercise and sunshine.”
“Most importantly the HCl has
given me a feeling of well being and
feeling comfortable in my place in
the universe, allowing me to process
through a depression I have been
suffering from. I feel GREAT. The
darkness has lifted, the impending
doom is cast away! The low dose regimen
has also been extremely helpful
in musical inspiration; songs I had
half-written are coming to completion and new songs are
being created. There is a distinct connection between ibo
and rhythm/melody, and further underscores for me the
important aspect of music in the Bwiti ceremonies.”
Individual 2: Female, early 40s, overall good health but
suffering from anorexia, has been physically dependent
on narcotic analgesics for 19 years. Her use started with
heroin and eventually shifted to methadone maintenance
and finally hydromorphone (Dilaudid). She has extreme
fear and dislike of “tripping” and has repeatedly refused to
take a full-blown ibogaine reset.
Her average daily intake was 28Mg of hydromorphone
which she “cold-shakes” (breaks down the pills in a cooker
so they can be injected) and IVs.
She began by doing 35Mg of ibogaine HCl and was
immediately able to stop injecting the hydromorphone
and obtained similar analgesia from 24Mg of Dilaudid.
Over a period of five days she maintained on 35Mg of ibo-
gaine HCl while continuously decreasing the hydromorphone,
which she was taking orally, as prescribed. After
five days she was on 16Mg of hydromorphone.
At the start of day 8 she began attending psychotherapy.
Over the next two weeks she gradually increased
her intake of ibogaine HCl to 50Mg/day, and decreased
hydromorphone to 6Mg. On
day 19, she took a 10 day
break from ibogaine HCl, and
her hydromorphone intake
rose back to 12Mg/daily
(oral), before tapering back
down to 6Mg/day within
hours of restarting ibogaine
maintenance at 35Mg.
At six months out, this
cycle appears to be consistent.
She takes a break from ibogaine maintenance every
20 days. Slowly drifts from 6Mg/day of hydromorphone,
up to 12Mg, before restarting ibogaine at 35Mg/day, at
which point she drops back to 6Mg—which appears to be
her comfort zone—while gradually increasing ibogaine
HCl to 50Mg/day.
She has plans to try a 500Mg dose of ibogaine HCl, and
attempt complete cessation of narcotic analgesics.
Ibogaine Maintenance: Hitting the Wall
Whether an individual is doing ibogaine maintenance
while clean, or with narcotic analgesics—utilizing daily
maintenance, or skipping days—there seems to be a point
of diminishing returns somewhere between day 20 and
25. At this point people discover that for all intent and
purposes they’re “speeding”. There is a general feeling of
being wired, jittery, and severe sleep disturbances begin
manifesting themselves.
Taking a break from ibogaine for a week or two at
this point appears to be sufficient time to allow roughly
another three-week cycle of ibogaine before once again
hitting the wall. Three weeks “on” followed by ten days to
two weeks “off” has been a cycle people have maintained
without any particular side effects.
Conclusion
Drug-dependent individuals have a variety of obstacles
to surmount. One of the largest tends to be years—or
decades—of being at the receiving end of what passes for
drug treatment in Western society. This includes years of
being categorized as diseaseafflicted
criminals.
Ibogaine is akin to the
peeling away of a veil, the
removal of the soft focus
glasses. After the noribogaine
disappears (the so-called
window of opportunity) the
harsh reality of life is often
unbearably uncomfortable.
Ibogaine doesn’t eradicate
the underlying causes of addiction, which for many people
may take years to understand and come to terms with.
Ibogaine is more than a detox, but it’s a catalyst, not a
“cure.”
Ibogaine treatment is in its infancy. The future holds
the possibility of second-generation drugs such as noribogaine
and 18-mc, which may—or may not—supersede
ibogaine maintenance. Currently, however, ibogaine
boosters, tune ups and maintenance are improving the
long-term effects of ibogaine administration.
Post-ibogaine, all that anyone absolutely must have in
order to progress towards whatever goal they have set for
themselves, can be distilled down to one word: BELIEF.
What exactly you choose to believe in is irrelevant, so
long as you infuse it with enough energy to make it real.
Unfortunately, what most drug-dependent individuals
have been taught is that they are powerless, diseased,
and flawed. Which creates the need for two more words:
SUPPORT SYSTEM. This is some sort of environment
where your beliefs and goals will be supported instead of
attacked and invalidated.
http://ibogaine.mindvox.com
http://www.ibogaine.org/manual.html
http://www.ibogaine.co.uk
Currently, however, ibogaine boosters,
tune ups and maintenance are improving
the long-term effects of ibogaine
administration.
24 m a p s • v o l u m e X V n u m b e r 1 • spring 2 0 0 5
springbull.


I want to add a personal disclaimer here: I DO NOT ADVOCATE DIRTY MAINTENANCE AS A REASONABLE ALTERNATIVE TO DETOXING!! Please understand that this protocol is only used in very unique circumstances where chronic pain -NOT 'junkie pain' (which all of us junkies have) is an issue. As experimental as ibogaine therapy is, this is even more so and EXTRA care and caution shall be the rule to anyone who even CONSIDERS this...I believe that people should have ALL tools at their disposal, but let's be real here...ALL people aren't always SMART. So for God's sake...be SMART. If you want to get clean off opiates, the BEST way is to titrate slowly your dose to the minimum effective level, then use a flood dose of an iboga product to spit that hook out. Use boosters for the first six to twelve months on a pre=planned schedule, and begin to incorporate healthy habits and make healthy associations socially...common sense will make sense after we get cleaned up some. Take care my friends, love to you all - Cal
« Last Edit: June 12, 2011, 12:33:43 PM by Calaquendi »
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Offline April

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Thank you!!!  I am definitely going to read this (don't have the time right this second, but I will be back on a little later tonight to devote my full attention to it).  I really appreciate this, and trust me, I completely understand your hesitance with regard to discussing or promoting 'dirty maintenance.'  People can so easily overdose... that is why I won't touch anything until I know as much as I possibly can about it and its possibilities.  I am a research junkie ;)  This is great, and it definitely helps.  When I eventually do this, I will definitely document everything and post it all here, in the hopes that it might contribute to the whole of this community.  I would love to hear from as many people as possible about their experience, trials, etc. with this.  I am not really interested in experimenting with root bark based on what I've read... I feel like very small doses of HCl or TA might be a better route for me, but again, I must know more before making any real plans or concrete statements about it.  Thanks again!!